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 My overheating saga so far

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lmantuano
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Number of posts : 20
Age : 68
Home City : Melbourne
Model and year : 1996 SC Limited, 2wd, 1KZ-TE
and
1991 Hilux Surf SSRX 4wd, 2LT-E
Registration date : 2009-07-08

PostSubject: My overheating saga so far   Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:59 am

G'day All,

well, after much mucking around and some clever investigative work (clever because my sons did most of it), we've come to the very plausible conclusion that our gas-in-the-coolant problem is caused by porous or micro cracked block/cylinder liner.

This because we tracked down the mechanic who did all the recent head, gasket, radiators etc work without fixing the problem hence concluding - by logic more than observation - that the block was kaput.

He also told us that he had proof that the engine had been extensively cooked.

Ok then, decision made, we replace the engine (plan B, rebuild).

My son says let's buy a "good" wreck (rolled, rear-ended) take the motor out and ebay the rest of the good bits. He's done it before successfully with his '97 petrol Hilux 4x4.

Given that the 1KZTE is used on Prados, Hiluxes/Surfs and who knows what else, if we come across a 1KZTE from a newer vehicle, say 1999-2002, what's the chances of show-stopper incompatibilities between oldish vs newish engines?

Any opinions and experiences welcome.

lm
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AussieQ
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Number of posts : 884
Age : 71
Home City : Hervey Bay Qld
Model and year : 1994 sc
Registration date : 2008-08-15

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:20 pm

I don't know how it would fit but I think the latest Prados are intercooled. That would be good.
Hope it works out OK for you

Just had a thought, it wouldn't be the fitting of the engine but the electronics that could be the major headache.
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mr freeze
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Number of posts : 148
Home City : Sydney South
Model and year : 99 SC 4WD 1KZ-TE
Registration date : 2008-07-14

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:36 am

wow iv'e never heard of anyone cooking the 1kz engine yet, guess there's always a first time.
if you get a motor out of a surf or early prado it will be better as they use the good old throttle cable and I dont think the early surf is intercooled and all wiring should be the same.
2003 and up model prado has electronic throttle body (drive by wire) and a whole bunch of other electronic gizmo's.
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lmantuano
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Not so new now


Number of posts : 20
Age : 68
Home City : Melbourne
Model and year : 1996 SC Limited, 2wd, 1KZ-TE
and
1991 Hilux Surf SSRX 4wd, 2LT-E
Registration date : 2009-07-08

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:27 am

Update...

yes, thanx guys for the advice, any engine will do actually, we'll just transfer the "old" bits across to the new motor (i.e. throttle body, cables etc).

Anyway, all of the above could be a fizzle since today we have reviewed the situation and decided to take a different course of action (doesn't mean that in the end we don't swap the motor though...).

My son spoke to the people that refurbed the head, they confirmed that they couldn't find any faults/cracks after doing the appropriate tests, supposedly pressure test on the heated up head.

BUT, when my son pressed them on how sure they were that there weren't possible cracks in places hard to detect like behind the precompression cups, they said "well, bring it back and we'll test it again for free"! Humm...

Well, this is the course we are going to take. My son is finally going to lift the head this weekend and we'll getit to the engineers early next week.

Further, I'll be trying to find a good head that I can borrow/rent to do further testing. I know that's a long shot but if you don't try...

Thanx for listening, I'll keep you informed as things progress.

lm
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AussieQ
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Number of posts : 884
Age : 71
Home City : Hervey Bay Qld
Model and year : 1994 sc
Registration date : 2008-08-15

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:51 pm

Waiting with bated breath.
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lmantuano
Not so new now
Not so new now


Number of posts : 20
Age : 68
Home City : Melbourne
Model and year : 1996 SC Limited, 2wd, 1KZ-TE
and
1991 Hilux Surf SSRX 4wd, 2LT-E
Registration date : 2009-07-08

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:19 pm

Ok, quick update and question...

things are moving way too slow but we want to get the max positive outcome, soooo, bought an ebay 1KZTE out of a 2000 Hilux.

The intention now is to get a local town mechanic to drop old engine and put in the "new" one. We'll do all the disconnecting & reconnecting.

We'll look at the old engine later to try figure out the original problem and possibly put together a working spare.

Question: are there any special tricks or difficult issues, in the physical swap job, that we need to mention to the mechanic?

thanx

lm
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Admin
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Number of posts : 1116
Age : 52
Home City : Bristol
Registration date : 2007-01-15

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:01 pm

Sounds like a plan...get some pics (if you get chance Smile)
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mr freeze
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Number of posts : 148
Home City : Sydney South
Model and year : 99 SC 4WD 1KZ-TE
Registration date : 2008-07-14

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:32 am

pig of a job to swap an engine in a hiace , me thinks you have to r& r all front seats and trim and covers and set up engine lifter through the sliding door
or drop suspension and cross member and bring it out the bottom.
let us know if it was as bad as I think it might be
good luck
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TAHARVEY
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Number of posts : 3
Home City : Bellingen NSW Australia
Model and year : 1995 AWD 3L Turbo Diesel Auto
Registration date : 2009-12-03

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:23 pm

Imantuano - how are you going with your over heating saga

Having similar problems with gas in the coolant with a 1kz te 3L TD .

Head has been off twice - first time mech claimed gasket RS, second time same mech claimed no problem with head or gasket. Problem remains the same both times - gas in the coolant which eventually removes enough coolant to reduce cooling efficiency and temp starts to climb. An engin rebuilder has suggested the head may have a problem behind the precompression inserts which does not necessarly show up on a bench test. Anybody had experience with this?

Recently tried Irontite in the cooling sysem and it appeared to work at least there was much less coolant being removed. Unfortunantly after a solid hill climb I made the mistake of shutting down too quickly and the problem is back - about to try Irontite sealant again.
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lmantuano
Not so new now
Not so new now


Number of posts : 20
Age : 68
Home City : Melbourne
Model and year : 1996 SC Limited, 2wd, 1KZ-TE
and
1991 Hilux Surf SSRX 4wd, 2LT-E
Registration date : 2009-07-08

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:25 am

Hi Taharvey,

no result to speak of so far, the ebay engine we bought had a stuffed head but a very good block, from what we can see. Had the head been ok, we would have gone ahead and swapped the whole engine but....

The plan now is to replace the original head with a new one and the rationale for it is that we have been convinced - spoken to many people + reputable mechanics/engineers - that the problem is most likely an undetected crack behind precomb cups or valve seats. Noone has suggested that there might be a fault/cracks on the block.

We are very close to pull the head, probably this weekend, and to order a new one from this mob in the UK (ebay id cadherin10 http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Toyota-Cylinder-head-1KZ-Hilux-Surf-Prado-Colorado-3-0_W0QQitemZ280428647737QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item414ad99539 )

BTW, any of you UK colleagues have any intel about this ebay seller?

We expect to spend just under $1000 in parts and $200 in engineer's labor to grind and fit the valves. My son and I will do the rest of the work.

I'll let you know more as things progress.

PS How's Bellingen? no more floods on the radar? I have a good friend there, Ziggy, she lives in the apartment above the CBA branch, red hair, five-foot-nothing, unstoppable... say HI if you know her.

Luigi M
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TAHARVEY
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Number of posts : 3
Home City : Bellingen NSW Australia
Model and year : 1995 AWD 3L Turbo Diesel Auto
Registration date : 2009-12-03

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:38 am

Hi Luigi

Thanks for the update - I am keen to know how you go. Do you plan to test the old head on the bench or simple replace with the new unit?

BTW why did you go for a motor off ebay, was it much cheaper? I have a quote from a mob in Syd for an imported second hand 1KZ-TE
engine for $2850.00 with a 3 month parts warranty. Only quote so far.

A specialist diesel shop in Syd has suggested pull head off first to inspect and then make decision to do a new head ar swap out entire unit. Will see after xmas.

Meanwhile I am trying Irontite sealant for a 2nd time and a 5 litre overflow tank insde the cab so I can see how much coolant is being forced out and stop well before temp moves and refill radiator. A bit dodgy but should work as a temp to get past xmas.

Sorry dont know Ziggy but will keep a eye out - tell her I drive a white and silver Hiace camper and can sometime be found outside Guru Foods playing mandolin with some of the other Bello missfits.

Terry
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Clive
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Model and year : 2003 Range Rover 4.4 goes like a rocket and drinks like Oliver Reed!
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PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:46 pm

Don't know the ebay dealer BUT beware it is not a Chinese copy head as it is very cheap.
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lmantuano
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Not so new now


Number of posts : 20
Age : 68
Home City : Melbourne
Model and year : 1996 SC Limited, 2wd, 1KZ-TE
and
1991 Hilux Surf SSRX 4wd, 2LT-E
Registration date : 2009-07-08

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:47 am

Hi Terry,

we will replace the head and then later on, maybe, we'll get the old one tested.

Of course we are assuming that the new head will fix our problem.

I've just ordered two new heads (one for the Hiace and the other one for the spare motor - long valve head, for 1KZTE year 2000 onwards) from a manufacturer in Shanghai, USD320 each plus USD50 sea freight.

The ebay 1KZ was advertised as good, low Km (35,000) out of a 2001 Hilux and was "unwanted" by the seller who had bought it also from ebay thinking it was a 5L that he wanted to put in his 4Runner... yeah, long messy story, the beauty is that we got it for $500.00 but, as I said before, the head is stuffed, evidence being a hole drilled between #4 valves probably looking for a crack, bloody backyarders!

All the head components look as if they've actually only done 35000KM, so does the block. We'll replace that head as well and voila we have a spare good motor!

I'll keep you posted as we progress but nothing much will happen until probably mid Jan.

As for having an overflow bottle in the cabin, this is exactly what I did when I drove the van up to the farm. I was stopping every 50-60Kms as the 2lt bottle got near full and "recycled" the coolant back in the engine... it was a slow trip!

As for my friend Ziggy, next time I speak to her I will mention Terry-the-mandolin-man..!

Regards

Luigi
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lmantuano
Not so new now
Not so new now


Number of posts : 20
Age : 68
Home City : Melbourne
Model and year : 1996 SC Limited, 2wd, 1KZ-TE
and
1991 Hilux Surf SSRX 4wd, 2LT-E
Registration date : 2009-07-08

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:06 am

Clive,

thanx for your comment.

I contacted the ebay seller and found out that, according to him, his heads come from NZ..! So, I thought, why couldn't I buy direct from NZ and save on freight?

So I googled and googled and eventually found a head manufacturer in Shanghai with whom I have been corresponding (long polite and helpful emails in good English, not Chinglish) and eventually I felt confident enough to order the two heads.

The other thing that I like about them is that they are currently attending as one of 1800 exhibitors at Shanghai's Automechanika Trade Fair.

Luigi
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Clive
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PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:35 pm

Tell how easy it is to do a head change with the engine out, still got the scars from doing it with the engine in!
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TAHARVEY
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Home City : Bellingen NSW Australia
Model and year : 1995 AWD 3L Turbo Diesel Auto
Registration date : 2009-12-03

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:44 am

Hi Luigi

Any update on your engin repairs.

I am about to take mine to a specialist diesel shop in Syd and start working from the head down. Keen to know what you have found and how the chinese head went

Terry
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lmantuano
Not so new now
Not so new now


Number of posts : 20
Age : 68
Home City : Melbourne
Model and year : 1996 SC Limited, 2wd, 1KZ-TE
and
1991 Hilux Surf SSRX 4wd, 2LT-E
Registration date : 2009-07-08

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:36 am

Hi Terry,

still waiting for the heads to arrive from China. We chose to ship them by sea.

Will keep you posted

lm
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AussieQ
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Home City : Hervey Bay Qld
Model and year : 1994 sc
Registration date : 2008-08-15

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:43 pm

I'm curious as to how many biccies for the head from China
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lmantuano
Not so new now
Not so new now


Number of posts : 20
Age : 68
Home City : Melbourne
Model and year : 1996 SC Limited, 2wd, 1KZ-TE
and
1991 Hilux Surf SSRX 4wd, 2LT-E
Registration date : 2009-07-08

PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:43 am

So far USD680 for both including USD40 for TNT sea freight... don't know yet about any customs clearance fees. Hope to find out soon

lm
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ruffnut
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PostSubject: Re: My overheating saga so far   Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:39 am

should not be any customs fees as the amount paid is under 1,000 dollars
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