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 '98 model temp gauge

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Datman
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Registration date : 2011-03-09

PostSubject: '98 model temp gauge   Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:41 pm

Quick Query for you guys... I used to own a 94 supercustom 3L Turbo diesel, brilliant run for 5 years despite minor cooling issues as normal.

I have just upgraded to a '98 model and had it for a week. Runs extremely well, just have some questions about the temp gauge. I've read all about the Unresponsive temp gauges in these things, and had intended to do the mod on my older supercustom. With the new van I've bought, the temp gauge seems to move around a lot below half. Normally it seems to only get up to just below half. Then I guess when the thermostat opens or whatever. sometimes it will drop back a little bit. Then if you really thrash it up a hill it may actually reach halfway for once, then drop back again once you get to normal crusing. Apparently the thermostat was replaced a year ago by Toyota, as it had been stuck open for a couple of weeks, and I have seen the receipts for this work.

My question is, did the 98 models have a more sensitive gauge? I have pulled the dash apart yesterday and cant see any signs of the mod having been done... Its the later model dash with digital odo. It doesn't use any water at all, so I'm still thinking its a gauge/sender thing rather than cooling issue. Of course I'm even happier if the gauge actually is sensitive!
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wernerk
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Home City : Flinders Park, South Australia
Model and year : 06/94 Toyota Hiace Super Custom 3.0L TD AWD
Registration date : 2012-01-19

PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:23 am

I have a 1994 4WD with the 1KZ-TE engine. My temperature reading also jumps about below the halfway mark. I remember when I first got the van, the gauge more or less sat exactly on halfway mark or 1 notch below. Now it rarely sits there.

I had asked my mechanic about it and he said it's probably some corrosion around the sensor area which isn't resulting in a good earth/contact. I had tried to take out the sensor to clean it up but couldn't do so.

I'm thinking about whether to go the way of an external temperature sensor, but haven't made up my mind yet.
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Datman
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:30 am

hmm ok interesting, where is the sensor located on these? I wondered if mine also had the wrong or a more sensitive thermostat installed. but it was done by toyota so should have been replaced with a genuine part.
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wernerk
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Home City : Flinders Park, South Australia
Model and year : 06/94 Toyota Hiace Super Custom 3.0L TD AWD
Registration date : 2012-01-19

PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:26 am

I think the sensor is located just under where the large hose joins onto the engine block on the passenger side. It's on the end of a brownish wire. If I get time, I'll try and take a pic of where I think it's located and post it on here.
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Datman
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:51 am

so I found the sensor, you were correct. The sensor connection looks fine, so I cant see any problems here. It doesn't really seem like a connection issue anyway, cos the gauge doesn't jump around wildy, its a smooth action between say halfway and 5mm under half on the gauge...
I'm wondering if the motor is just running slightly cold, I'm tempted to remove the thermostat and see if i can spot anything silly going on here... Its almost like the thermostat has been drilled or something so it runs slightly cold.

the other thing i thought of checking is the sensor itself, but i dont know what resistance values i should be looking for at normal temp...

Some would say I shouldn't be too concerned, cos its not running hot! But I just want to make sure the gauge isn't lying any more than they do from factory!

How hard is it to fit an aftermarket gauge in tandem with the factory gauge?
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BFG
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Model and year : 1994 HiAce Reimo conversion, 2.8 auto.
Registration date : 2012-06-21

PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:54 am

I read on a Hilux forum somewhere that these gauges have a zener diode setup in them, such that when they get to half way they don't move until things are too late. I think there's a thread on here about it as well.

I assume it was so that drivers don't worry about the gauge creeping up and up when climbing hills. Unfortunately, it doesn't give you time to take corrective measures - like sticking the heater on full blast.

Cheers,

Rob
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SlowAce
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Model and year : 1993 SC 3.0L TD. 4wd
Registration date : 2012-05-11

PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:55 am

my gauge sit above the halfway mark...and when drilling it up hills like Arthers-Pass it tend to lift a bit just by the temp simbol. I have a mod that Im busy with which is a 2nd mechanical temp gauge fitted to the alli manifold where the large hose connects on the block and the std temp sensor. Ill get a pic up.
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SlowAce
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:23 am

its threaded through the alli and same time plastic steel glued in the threads and outside. Not 100% sure how it will hold with the fluctuating temps once driving and stopping.
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Datman
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:32 pm

nice mod SlowAce. Might do something like this for an aftermarket gauge in future.

Yes the standard gauges do have a massive deadband in the middle. Howver mine doesn't even get to the middle normally. Seems to fluctuate depending on driving, always below half. Its probably a good thing, but I just want to know exactly whats causing it, so that I know that either yes the gauge is really sensitive, or no I have an 'overcooling' issue. Wish I knew the resistance's that the sender should be so I could test it... I
Process of elimination might be the trick, try another gauge first just to make sure mine is not dodgy maybe.
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wernerk
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:03 am

Hmm, might have to show this to my mechanic & see what he thinks.

I would like to have a second gauge too as the original one doesn't give a true indication of what's going on. Like yours, it sits at random anywhere under the 1/2 way mark on the display. It would be good to know if the engine's heating up when going up long hills so one can take evasive action to avoid overheating. Mind you, we did go up a bumpy rocky track for about 500m or so & back down again, albeit slowly...

I noticed that my coolant level in the overflow bottle had dropped down to about 1/4 to 1/3 of the full level after I went away a couple of weekends ago and the gauge was nowhere near past 1/2 level on the electronic display.

Must investigate why, hopefully nothing too sinister. confused
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mgdf85
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Model and year : 1995 Toyota Supercustom KZH100
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:13 am

Datman and Wernerk. Seems you both most likely have faulty thermostats. Should sit just below half all the time. Only other thing could be viscous fan working too hard I.E too much fluid inside but not as likely. Wernerk, thats a bit of a worry if you are using water and cant find any external leaks. First sign of a slight crack in cylinder head.
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Datman
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:49 pm

that was my first thought, faulty thermostat. but it was only replaced 6 months ago by a toyota dealership, with toyota genuine part.. can happen i suppose...
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Datman
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:48 pm

well, van is in at toyota today to get seatbelt seen to, so I asked them to check out the cooling. Will report back tonight!
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wernerk
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:53 pm

I had a rise test done back in May and it passed. This is supposed to be the best test for a cracked head. The coolant has never run dry in the overflow tank since I flushed the system and topped up with new coolant.

I'll monitor the coolant levels and I'll have to get under the seat and do a thorough inspection for leaks on the weekend.

My mechanic said that the fluctuations in the temperature gauge were due to corrosion around the sensor housing resulting in a poor earth connection. I do remember when he first looked at the car, he did have the sensor out and there was some corrosion around the threads. At the time he said to wait until I was in the process of flushing the cooling system and clean it then. Unfortunately, I couldn't remove the sensor to clean it, so I've just left it.

I've got to get the shockers replaced soon, so I'll revisit the sensor issue then. I'll ask him about the possibility of a faulty thermostat as well.
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lmantuano
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:18 pm

Guys,

temp gauge "zener" issue, see this...

http://toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14717

enjoy

lm
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Datman
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:01 pm

yea have seen that article.

but what im describing is a factory gauge that wasn't coming up to normal operating temperature...

anyhow, toyota workshop said everything checked out fine, told me this van will run colder than my last one cos it has two radiators... duh, last one had two radiators also... Rolling Eyes

so, went for a long drive on the weekend, 100km each way. Then over some rough gravel tracks in the forest. So on the way there the gauge dicked around as usual. Then on the gravel i thrashed it a bit. Then left it sitting for an hour or so, then hit the road for return journey. On the way home, the temp came up to half properly! and stayed there! and now everytime i drive it it is now sitting on half beautifully! Certainly looks like a dodgy thermostat that was sticking open....

I have a feeling that this van was previously being used for a LOT of short/cold running. which could maybe explain a thermostat that has decided to stick open a little bit, having hardly been driven long enough to get up to temp? I'll see how it goes this week, but this morning on the way to work, sat on halfway fine.

Does it sound like a thermostat thats finally come free? would also like to stick an aftermarket gauge on anyway, since I will be doing a lot of towing...
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h20 gasser
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Model and year : 1991 SC 2,4td 2wd Running with HHO assist (less emissions/better economy)
Registration date : 2012-07-28

PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:56 pm

Hi, when I got my 91 2,4td SC I read as much as possible about the "problem areas these vans have. (referring to JDM imported from Japan).Fearful of a blown head I decided to upgrade the exhaust system.
My mechanic suggested that a more accurate way to protect the engine would be to install an exhaust temp gauge, she said the truckers use those to throttle back if the temp goes over a certain limit. She installed one in her jetta non turbo. We went up a steep hill and I was impressed how quick the gauge showed the danger level, meaning that had she pushed harder the engine may well have blown. I have bought a kit and will have it installed soon.Anyone heard about this ?
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wernerk
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:21 am

When I tried to open the page from the surf forum, it said the page was no longer available.

I was talking about the subject of temperature monitoring to my mechanic on the weekend and he did mention that the exhaust gas temperature is probably the best way of monitoring engine temperature. Wouldn't have a clue how the kit would be installed. I may go to a diesel exhaust place and talk to them about this subject.

When I asked my mechanic about installing an aftermarket temperature sensor/gauge, he said it should be adequate to keep an eye on temps.

I think I have found where my coolant leak is. There appears to be coolant leaking from where the top large radiator hose joins onto the pipe, near the radiator cap. There are green stains below that point on the timing belt cover. Hopefully replacing the radiator hose will solve the problem. The hose appears to be in good condition, so I don't know why all of a sudden it's leaking from where it sits on the pipe. scratch
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Datman
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:01 pm

well now that mine is running fine for no apparent reason other than I thrashed its ass on a back coutnry road, I'm going to replace the thermostat anyway. All previous symptoms were pointing to a thermostat stuck open. Which is bizarre, considering it was replaced 6 months ago for that reason... But who knows, maybe they cocked up... I'll replace it for my own piece of mind and see how we go. The good thing is it doesn't seem to use any water, although I've yet to do a tow. Oh the joys of a 1KZ supercustom!
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MalL
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:58 am

I've never heard of an exhaust gas temp gauge being used in cars. My experience with them has been in aircraft where they are used to manually adjust fuel/air ratio to match varying air density with altitude. Once this mixture is set the EGT only varies if the throttle setting is changed, but engine temperature can vary a lot depending on airspeed, e.g. climbing or descending. The accurate engine temperature indication in light aircraft comes from a cylinder head temperature gauge. (air cooled engines).
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Datman
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:19 am

well plan D... New thermostat now in. Radiator also flushed. Drove it home from the workshop tonight, and temperature only got up to just under half. Driving uphill on the way home, got up to half. Then back on the flat, dropped again to just under half. Not much difference to before. It really does look like a properly sensitive gauge... I dont know whether to keep trying to find any problems or just be happy with it!
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wernerk
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PostSubject: Re: '98 model temp gauge   Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:20 am

Found another leak before going away for 4 days, this time a slow drip from the drain pipe at the bottom of the main radiator. I plugged the pipe as best I could and kept an eye on the coolant levels each morning.

We went on some pretty badly corrugated roads out to Gluepot reserve, but it did shake everything up enough that the temp gauge sat exactly halfway, most of the time.

When we returned back to Waikerie, we took the car to a mechanic as we had to head on to Melbourne, then back to Adelaide, a round trip of ca 1550 km. He discovered the leakage problem to be with the o-ring on the drain plug. He put something on it to help seal it and pressure tested it.

I topped up the overflow bottle yesterday morning and checked it again this morning. Finally, touch wood, no more loss of coolant. cheers

The temp gauge sat on halfway for most of the way from Waikerie back to Adelaide, only occasionally jumping to about a quarter for a while.

I think I'm still going to put an aftermarket temp monitor for piece of mind.

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