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 Aye up.

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TwentyOneThirtyFive
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PostSubject: Aye up.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:12 am

Hi,

Just saying 'hello' Smile

Took delivery of a HiAce Super GL yesterday. Vantech hightop camper conversion with a 2.8D auto with part time 4wd.

Not new to campers, had a VW T4 Westy for the last five years ([url=bettybus.wordpress.com]bettybus.wordpress.com[/url]). She'll be up for sale if I ever get her back from the garage.

Took the HiAce out for a run last night, was nice to not come back on a RAC van. Initial impressions are that it's slow, really slow, I mean glacially slow, but much smoother the the 5 pot 2.4D in the VW. Driving an auto will take some getting used to. Do people just leave the overdrive switched on all the time?

Sure I will have lots of questions because my Japanese reading skills are non-existent!

Cheers,
dan
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GPW
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:56 am

Hi, Herts is just down the road from me, you'll have to pop by one day!

Van sounds good, I didn't realise T4s were unreliable too, I thought it was just the old air-cooled that suffered from that?

There seems to have been a cluster of Super Customs arriving in the UK this year - hurrah!

Is the 2.8D a turbo or non turbo?
Possible reasons for power loss are:

Dirty air filter
Dirty fuel filter
Dirty manifold pressure sensor filter (turbo only)
Clogged inlet manifold from EGR (mainly turbo)
Dirty injectors (less likely if it's got a nice smooth idle).

Also check your throttle pedal moves the engine butterfly the full distance, on a few diesels these need adjusting to do so. My old 406 did it's first 60,000 miles on a maximum of half throttle until I bought it...

So I'd advice giving it a proper service. Ideally you'll also get a transmission service too - new oil and filter clean/replace (depends on model), and maybe for future proofing new coolant too.

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Hiace4wd
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:24 am

Hi Dan, welcome.

You have the 3L engine, not 3 litre, but 3L engine code. @GPW, they never came with turbo
Toyota also made 2L (2.4d) and 5L (3.0) For the 2L there is a turbo version (2L-T and 2L-TE), but it will never run high power, and if you were to use those parts and convert your 3L to a turbo version you can never run high pressure. The engine may be able to take the extra power, but the cilinders get extra heat, and so the turbo versions have different pistons.

If it is slow, you have to figure it if it is working properly or not. Because if you compare it to the VW, the VW might have a turbo, and it may be quite a bit lighter than the Hiace.

But these 2L and 3L engine will never be fast. However, I have the 2L engine, and while it is not fast, it allows me to drive highway speeds of 100 to 110km/h without many issues, and temporarliy do 125km/h or so. And mine is really heavy with the 4x4 and all (more than 2 ton)
Going up the mountain on the highway in Europe, it slows down quite a bit. But it never gets hot Smile

You could check the things that GPW says, to see if it is running properly. Since it is not a turbo, mainly replace filters and fluids.
Also, make sure that the coolant system is okay too. When replacing coolant, flush the system a couple of times.

If you want it to have more power you can check the 2L-TE engine (japanese import) or a 2RZ-FE or 3RZ-FE engine swap. The 2RZ and 3RZ are petrol so that leads to quite some changes and cost. However, that is the way to make it a pretty fast van!
If you have much time and money, a V8 also fits but I guess it is a bit ridiculous
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mickB
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:32 am

Hey up back bounce another ex- vw owner here too

I have a SC with the 2.4td 2l-t engine and with the ect on it does motor quite well, my T4 was the 1.9d so I know what slow is lol

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Hiace4wd
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:47 am

@mickB - I think you have the 2L-TE right?

Adding the extra E means it operates smoother and more efficient, and at the same time a bit more complicated to accomplish that.
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TwentyOneThirtyFive
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:24 pm

Yes, it's the 3L - 2.8D NA.  No turbo, no electronics.  91hp?  110,000kms on the clock.  A few little knocks and scratches - think the 4wd system has been used Smile  I'm a bit scared about the central locking, softclose door and AC, not used to mod cons like that!  It beeps at me if I leave the lights on!

I'll be doing a decent service as soon as I get a moment.  Just had front discs, a timing belt and oil, but I doubt any of the filters or AT were done.  No problem with it being slow and no plans to monkey with the engine - it's been bought for reliability and it's a campervan not a race car, but was surprised it felt that much slower than the VW.  It cruised nicely at 60mph (100km/h?) once it got there Smile The VW was slow and thirsty when we first got that and we got that runnin better, so we start again...

Any recommendations for UK service parts suppliers?

It was a bit of a last minute purchase, a long and boring story has lead us to give up on the Westy.  It's off the road again just before we have 3 weeks off, so we needed another van.  What would be reliable we wondered?  So a few days to get this one cleaned and packed and work out what isn't working - then it's 3 weeks of the Highlands and Islands, then back for the Adventure Overland show in Stratford on Avon Smile

Then we'll give her a full service and back on the road for more adventures.  Cambridge is on the list, last time we tried the Westy went wrong (Other people don't have the problems I have with them, but she's done 300,000km and I think has been mistreated before we got her)

Thanks for the welcome Smile
dan
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Hiace4wd
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:59 pm

When your Westy is off the road, it is annoying and costly.

When your Hiace is off the road, it is just fun! Very Happy

Your Westy wasn't a Syncro I guess? Anyway, if you're new to 4x4 you'll be surprised what the Hiace can do! Only drawback is ground clearance.
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GPW
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:03 pm

TwentyOneThirtyFive wrote:
Any recommendations for UK service parts suppliers?

Try http://www.burrowstoyotaparts.co.uk/hiace-parts-c66.html

and eBay has quite a few service kits, mounts etc.
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TwentyOneThirtyFive
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:20 pm

Hiace4wd wrote:

When your Hiace is off the road, it is just fun!  Very Happy

That made me chuckle Smile

New to 4x4s, but saw some videos on the HiAceHobo website (although that is lifted a couple of inches?) and was impressed. I'm not looking for that, but we wildcamp a fair bit and it will be nice to have the extra traction. Going to have a play with it this weekend.

Are there any limits - ie max speeds? Once the hubs are locked, do you need to be stopped to engage 4x4?

The Westy is 2wd and I have had to be towed off of a wet grass field!

@GPW - thanks for the link. I feel a shopping spree coming on.

dan
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:33 pm

You should only engage and disengage 4x4 when stopped or at speeds below 5km/h, real slow.
Once it is engaged you should not drive on (dry) tarmac as it will wear the drivetrain. So it is not like permanent 4wd some SUV's have.

You will have quite a bit of extra traction, and you will be able to take steep climbs as well.
Of course, it depends a bit on surface and tyre type.

I followed the same modifications as Hiace Hobo (almost there) but even without it we did a lot of dirt tracks and mountain roads.
The van is capable of the same stuff as a real 4x4, only lacking in ground clearance (which the modifications improve)
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:02 pm

Hiace4wd wrote:
@mickB - I think you have the 2L-TE right?

Adding the extra E means it operates smoother and more efficient, and at the same time a bit more complicated to accomplish that.

sorry you're correct - my bad Laughing
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TwentyOneThirtyFive
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:43 pm

Hiace4wd wrote:
You should only engage and disengage 4x4 when stopped or at speeds below 5km/h, real slow.
Once it is engaged you should not drive on (dry) tarmac as it will wear the drivetrain. So it is not like permanent 4wd some SUV's have.

Thanks, good info.

dan
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TwentyOneThirtyFive
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:35 pm


A little over 100 miles at the weekend and starting to bond with the auto box Smile Should I bother turning off the O/D?

Hate the mirrors, things are most certainly much closer than they appear, but at least I know now!

Locked the hubs and took a short drive across the campsite in 4wd. Can't say I noticed the difference on dry grass. No lights or anything? Is that right? Low ratio lever seems to work, although it's a pig to move.

Altogether reasonably quiet, fairly smooth and quite a civilized drive. Everyone on the campsite thought it was quite funny when we arrived and started cleaning the van Very Happy Still, nice evening with a campfire, a few beers and a slightly cleaner van.
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Hiace4wd
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:08 pm

Ok I'm not sure about your version, but I have a 4x4/4wd light in the dashboard that lights up. Perhaps you can see the icon in the center of the dashboard (between the gauges) when using a flashlight, so you know what to look for.

I assume you understand that locking the front hubs is necessary, but you have to push the 4x4 button on your dashboard?

You should hear a "click" or "cloink" noise when the button is pressed. Or after you press it and drive a few meters.

And driving on anything that provides grip (I would think dry grass also) you should notice that steering has become harder. You could even test it shortly on dry tarmac as a test, but then disable it again because you shouldn't drive it on dry tarmac.

Question from my side, how do you engage low-range on an automatic version? Is it just fixing it in a lower gear using the automatic lever? Or do you actually have a second high-low gear stick? (this is what I have in my manual version)
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TwentyOneThirtyFive
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:49 pm


It's the same, a second hi/low stick.

Yes, pressed the button on the dash. Didn't try steering, as there was plenty of grip I didn't want to drive too far, just see if there were any strange noises. But, didn't hear a clonk or anything. How does it work, solenoid somewhere to switch over? Any common faults?

It's probably fine, but more testing required.

I'll have a look at the dash in more detail for a light. I thought it surprising as there are lights for so many other things!

Thanks for the help so far Smile
dan
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:59 pm

Definitely more testing, it may not work.

The button on the dashboard activates a solenoid kind of thing, basically an air valve.

This valve sits on or near the transfercase. When the valve opens, the vacuum power is used to engage the front axle, inside the transfer case.

So if you get someone to press the button a couple of times, you should at least hear this solenoid/valve clicking. But to hear that you probably have engine off and lay under/near the left side of the car (passenger side in your case)

To test if it is working it needs the vacuumpower, so engine needs to be running.

When the vaccuum in mine was disconnected, the light did not came on. So, somehow the light detects if it is engaged (insteaf of just going on when the button is enabled).
So it may not work in your case, or the light (or sensor) is just broken Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:18 am

Hi,
Have a look at these few posts and the older thread linked within:
http://hiace-super-custom.free-boards.net/t2122-how-is-power-transmitted-from-rear-to-front-in-awd

I've used the 4x4 on mine a few times- pushed off onto a soft verge by oncoming car, snow/ice in winter, steep slippy campsites/showfields and hauling boats up steep, rough slipways.

Essentially, in an older P/T 4x4 Hiace, you lock the front hubs to connect them to the front axle (unlocked, they just freewheel). Then you can connect the main propshaft to the front propshaft by engaging the solenoid-actuated coupling using the button on the dash. If things are getting gnarly and you want to be able to crawl, you engage Low Ratio by stopping and pulling the secondary lever in front of the gearbox. There's an interlock on this to prevent you operating it until you have 4wd engaged.
If you are expecting trouble you can lock the hubs in anticipation, it just causes a bit of extra noise, wear and heavier fuel use+steering, as the whole front axle, diff & propshaft are being spun up and stopped as you accelerate and brake.

One cool side-effect of the cab layout is that you don't actually have to get out to lock the hubs.... Unlike a HiLux pickup (same chassis setup) you and your passenger can just pop the front doors, reach down and lock the hubs from the front seats and then motor on through the mire! :-)

Cheers,
W.
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:44 am

Interesting about the locking hubs, I never knew!
I read a bit more about this and there are some care that needs to be taken, worth reading up.

http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.html

I thought about getting 4WD but decided that 2WD might be lower (overall height for garaging). Also the one I happened to buy didn't have it - which was probably the main reason I have 2WD Wink.

Apparently it's quite easy to get stuck in a 2WD Hiace though, as the engine sits right on top of the front wheels and nothing much is over the back driving wheels. Maybe that's why the previous owner fitted 225 tyres on the front...
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TwentyOneThirtyFive
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:36 pm

WGWarburton wrote:
If things are getting gnarly and you want to be able to crawl, you engage Low Ratio by stopping and pulling the secondary lever in front of the gearbox. There's an interlock on this to prevent you operating it until you have 4wd engaged.

Thank you W and GPW, more good info - I'll read through the links. By the above comment, does that imply then that if I was able to put it into low ratio, the 4wd system was operational?

I can't see a light on the dash. I do however, have a replacement mph/kmh speedo facia, so something may be covered.

In other news, I drove it in the dark last night. After 5 years of driving a T4, it was a revelation to be able to see at night! @MickB probably understands Smile

dan
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:29 pm

TwentyOneThirtyFive wrote:
WGWarburton wrote:
If things are getting gnarly and you want to be able to crawl, you engage Low Ratio by stopping and pulling the secondary lever in front of the gearbox. There's an interlock on this to prevent you operating it until you have 4wd engaged.

Thank you W and GPW, more good info - I'll read through the links.  By the above comment, does that imply then that if I was able to put it into low ratio, the 4wd system was operational?

Yes, it does. I don't know how it's implemented but there's some sort of mechanism that stops you moving the lever until the 4x4 is engaged. If I switch on the van with the key but don't start the engine, the lever is locked. If I then start the van the vacuum actuator engages the 4x4 (and my light comes on) and the lever is free to move.
If I switch off 4x4 from the dash it stays engaged until I move the lever out of low ratio, at which point the light goes out and the actuator releases.
There's a good guide to fixing the vacuum actuator in the "fixing problems" section of GreaseMonkey, BTW.

Note that there's nothing to stop you engaging 4x4 (and low ratio) without locking the hubs...

It's good to understand the pros & cons of the 4x4 system. The limiting factor is the diffs- so unless you have lockable or limited slip diffs (LSDs) you can still spin wheels, losing grip. Just having 4x4 gets you drive to all wheels but doesn't guarantee that you'll get torque, as one wheel can spin, leaving the other three stationary. With a permanent "all wheel drive"  setup you usually have a viscous coupling that acts as an LSD in the centre, so you'll get some drive to the other axle in this situation.
The transfer case in a P/T 4x4 like ours has NO centre diff- so you will get torque to at least one front and one rear wheel (though the other two could still spin, leaving you stranded). This is the same net result as a classic Land Rover, though (which has a lockable centre-diff), and they are not noted for their limited off-road ability!

Serious off-road vehicles have lockable diffs centre, front and rear, to ensure even power distribution. I think these were optional on classic Landies. They also have much better ground clearance than a Hiace!

"All wheel drive" (permanent 4WD) is good for greasy highways and a bit of snow. The transfer case and low-ratio in the P/T setup is better in more extreme conditions (it's the same setup as a contemporary HiLux 4x4 pickup).

Quote :
I can't see a light on the dash.  I do however, have a replacement mph/kmh speedo facia, so something may be covered.  

In other news, I drove it in the dark last night.  After 5 years of driving a T4, it was a revelation to be able to see at night!  @MickB probably understands Smile

dan
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:09 pm

WGWarburton wrote:
Just having 4x4 gets you drive to all wheels but doesn't guarantee that you'll get torque, as one wheel can spin, leaving the other three stationary. With a permanent "all wheel drive"  setup you usually have a viscous coupling that acts as an LSD in the centre, so you'll get some drive to the other axle in this situation.

I'd have thought the lack of a centre diff meant that you'd need to spin one wheel at the back and one at the frot to get stuck, any gripping axle would be enough to get you going.

In fact disengaging the front hubs is the same as both front wheels spinning - but you still go forward... because the back axle has grip - just like any RWD vehicle.

Having a centre diff makes constant 4WD safe but has the effect of one wheel spinning getting you stuck, having an LSD centre diff would help somewhat, but still the most grippy system is that of the Hiace part time 4WD.
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:17 pm

Yes, that's pretty much what I was trying to say.

Apologies that I wasn't clear.


GPW wrote:
WGWarburton wrote:
Just having 4x4 gets you drive to all wheels but doesn't guarantee that you'll get torque, as one wheel can spin, leaving the other three stationary. With a permanent "all wheel drive"  setup you usually have a viscous coupling that acts as an LSD in the centre, so you'll get some drive to the other axle in this situation.

I'd have thought the lack of a centre diff meant that you'd need to spin one wheel at the back and one at the frot to get stuck, any gripping axle would be enough to get you going.

In fact disengaging the front hubs is the same as both front wheels spinning - but you still go forward... because the back axle has grip - just like any RWD vehicle.

Having a centre diff makes constant 4WD safe but has the effect of one wheel spinning getting you stuck, having an LSD centre diff would help somewhat, but still the most grippy system is that of the Hiace part time 4WD.
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:52 am

Great, thanks.

I knew of the issues around not having locking diffs, but I'm glad I read through all the links that have been supplied here and learnt about the stresses that p/t 4wd can put on the drivetrain, especially so on grippy surfaces. Will hopefully stop me doing something daft.

dan



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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:32 am

About the LSDs, some Hiaces got lucky and got an LSD from factory like mine. Only on rear axle.
You can check it by checking the axle code on the grey chassis no. plate when you open the engine compartment.

And I'll say it again, the Hiace is VERY capable off-road. The only issue is ground clearance, and it can be a bit of a pain to raise it (not as easy as other 4x4's)
Even though some of the engines (like our 2L and 3L) are slow, I have been climbing lots of stuff, including soft sand and it can be done.
Example:



Please note that our van has only 75hp and is raised a little with bigger tyres (which took some bodywork to get fitted)
At this moment the camper interior was temporarily out, so it also weight less. But still at least 2 tons I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:27 pm

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