Toyota Hiace Super Custom Owners Forum

Anything Toyota Hiace related
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  Log in  

Share | 
 

 Aye up.

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
AuthorMessage
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:10 pm

I'll have to insulate the van a bit behind the roof lining with some Thinsulate or Dacron. Then behind the side panels if I can work out how to get them off, and perhaps a layer under the floor.

Then with the sunroof blinds shut and the curtains closed (maybe a curtain across to shut-off the front section too) it shouldn't need too much heat.

Flames have H2O, CO and CO2, the advantage of electric is that it's super dry, even if it is woefully inadequate: but I reckon that depends mainly on insulation.
Re leisure batteries - I think you can only use 60% or so of the energy without shortening their life, but on eBay these days they are very cheap. I can get 2 for £70 even.. (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111672170878?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

I suspect the first think will be to get the insulation and curtains sorted, then worry about a heater (+ smoke alarm) later when I design the MegaPod (a slot in pod to provide bookshelf, TV stand, sink and storage) for when the Super gets used for camping.

I'm also thinking of relocating the mirror controls on the centre console to the dash (as in many other Hiaces), and then ditching that centre console and the plastic strip behind it. Then I should be able to move between the front and back more easily, which would be nice, especially in the rain.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
TwentyOneThirtyFive
Been here a while
Been here a while
avatar

Number of posts : 207
Home City : Hertfordshire, UK
Model and year : Super GL Camper (Vantech), 2.8D 4wd, 1995
Registration date : 2016-08-04

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:43 am

That is one thing I miss from the Westy at the moment, the moving from front to back without getting out. It can be done in an emergency, but not with any style or grace!

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Hiace4wd
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 520
Home City : Netherlands
Model and year : 1994 Toyota Hiace 4x4 DIY camper
Registration date : 2016-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:53 am

Mirror controls? Haha I don't have this luxury.

But I do have three seats in the front, on the middle one I removed the back, so you can get through.

@GPW, electric heating is definitely the safest of all. But on a cold night it will seriously deplete the batteries. You can actually use more than 60% of a deep-cycle battery, all you will do is shorten the lifetime (amount of cycles) of the battery. That's just a choice, and they are indeed relatively cheap.
I had a very small electric water boiler which also took power like that (350W or something) and I used it just once at a time on my starter batteries. This was with a 24V Landcruiser with 2x 100Ah batteries. If I ran it a couple of times (barely a litre water at a time) then I couldn't start the car anymore. Sure those were starter batteries so not ideal, but 2x 100Ah is still quite something.

However, in the end I prefer the diesel heating, because you have diesel with you anyway. And you don't consume much. Gas burns cleaner, but typically most burners (or stove things) leave there exact gasses in the cabin (unlike the diesel heaters). And you can run out of gas quickly when heating.
Electric can barely cope for one night, it shouldn't be freezing in the morning. However, it sounds good for how you want to use it. I would still advice not to run it in the night, but just get the cold out a bit when you wake up.

In future I would also like to do trips in the snow, like a winter trip to Poland or Scandinavia. The van is not suitable for that yet, mainly because of no isolation and no heater. I think to be sure I would need a big diesel heater like a D4 or something (3 to 4KW range). But that is just to cover all posibilities, like camping in minus -20. But that won't happen often because I don't think my girlfriend (or our 2 daughters) will agree to do that quickly Razz
However, they might agree and see the fun of driving through a winter wonderland when I have sorted out the heating Laughing
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Hiace4wd
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 520
Home City : Netherlands
Model and year : 1994 Toyota Hiace 4x4 DIY camper
Registration date : 2016-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:02 am

By the way, I changed my battery setup to a single battery. Yeah, I combined the leisure and starting with one battery. That is usually a very very poor choice, but I have an Optima Yellow Top which is actually a deep-cycle battery and starter battery at the same time. It can do a 1000 CCAmps. It actually gives 1200 CCA. And when I deplete it at around 50% it still gives me 1000CCA.
I configured my solar charger to cut off at around 50% (it is not so accurate on voltages) and I can still start the van very easily around freezing temperatures with a cold engine.
I could even start it when I almost completely depleted the battery (to like 20% or so), still almost 600CCA but I don't like that because it may not be enough power when it is really cold. And the amount of life cycles on the battery is decreased big time.

Main reason was interior space saving as well as a bit of weight saving. And it starts really really nice with the Optima. Just one tick of the starter engine and it runs. (but you don't need to buy an Optima specifically for that)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:19 am

TwentyOneThirtyFive wrote:
That is one thing I miss from the Westy at the moment, the moving from front to back without getting out.  It can be done in an emergency, but not with any style or grace!


Yes, sometimes I think that I'd have as much room with a swivel seat Ford like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IhpZHcpfPc
but they are way more expensive and don't look quite as cool as a Hiace Very Happy

That big between-seats centre console however has got to go, useful as it may be in the front I'm sure a cooler bag will do the job on trips and is easy to move. If there are carpet holes I'll clip down a nice rubber mat there.

There's plenty of space on the dash too that seems to be designed for the controls (and many Hiace models have them on the dash), I may have to splice and lengthen the cables to them but they are all colour coded.

Running the cable round to the centre console is also a huge plastic thing under the carpet that takes up a lot of space and is there purely to protect the cable as far as I can see, so that can also go leaving a better flatter bulkhead behind the seats in the back, and more space for the carpet.

This rear bulkhead - now flatter (in the vertical plane) can then have a 4-10" shaped van wide pod/bookshelf/storage/battery unit across with a cut-out in the middle to allow access from the front. I'm thinking of 6mm ply, 1x1 corner wood and perhaps a sliding or clip-out door. The idea withthe pod is to then make it bulge out near the steps with a sink on top and maybe a slide out draw for a 1 ring £20 cooker that useable when the side door is open.

Click for image of the pod, the forum doesn't seem to show them anymore unless you click.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:31 am

Hiace4wd wrote:
By the way, I changed my battery setup to a single battery. Yeah, I combined the leisure and starting with one battery. That is usually a very very poor choice, but I have an Optima Yellow Top which is actually a deep-cycle battery and starter battery at the same time. It can do a 1000 CCAmps. It actually gives 1200 CCA. And when I deplete it at around 50% it still gives me 1000CCA.
I configured my solar charger to cut off at around 50% (it is not so accurate on voltages) and I can still start the van very easily around freezing temperatures with a cold engine.
I could even start it when I almost completely depleted the battery (to like 20% or so), still almost 600CCA but I don't like that because it may not be enough power when it is really cold. And the amount of life cycles on the battery is decreased big time.

Main reason was interior space saving as well as a bit of weight saving. And it starts really really nice with the Optima. Just one tick of the starter engine and it runs. (but you don't need to buy an Optima specifically for that)

If I hadn't bought a brand new 95AH main battery last year I'd be doing exactly the same!
The standard SC battery is huge, the space already there, and careful management would make it work for both jobs as long as it's not completely flattened. Even completely flat - a small emergency 'jump' setup is probably still lighter - would do - and they usually have tyre pumps and torches built in too so that would eliminate the need for an extra battery.

Another thing I plan to do at the next oil change is switch to fully synth 0WXX oil as it's much easier to turn over when cold. My new battery spins it fast and without effort but Tesco makes buying Fully Synth a no brainer - plus the economy should rise. Very Happy. I did have Cars From Japan change the oil+filter before it shipped though so I'll use it a bit first!

Initially I plan to just use the main battery and an LED digital battery voltage readout, peanuts on eBay and surprisingly accurate.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:50 am

BTW this is the leisure battery that fits - it's exactly the right size and polarity for the SC:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-115-ah-DEEP-CYCLE-LEISURE-Battery-MOTORHOME-MARINE-SOLAR-BOAT-BEST-inUK-/302184241693?hash=item465b959a1d

I paid rather more for a single purpose one - doh!! (below)
https://www.tayna.co.uk/EA955-Exide-Premium-Car-Battery-250TE-P9596.html

Note the capacity jump from 95AH to 115AH is 28% more capacity which could be very useful.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
TwentyOneThirtyFive
Been here a while
Been here a while
avatar

Number of posts : 207
Home City : Hertfordshire, UK
Model and year : Super GL Camper (Vantech), 2.8D 4wd, 1995
Registration date : 2016-08-04

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:15 pm

GPW wrote:
Even completely flat - a small emergency 'jump' setup is probably still lighter - would do - and they usually have tyre pumps and torches built in too so that would eliminate the need for an extra battery.

We suffered a flat battery on Skye (slipping fan belt) and borrowed one of these from the van we had parked next to.  It would not even turn over our warm engine (a 3L, so older tech with more compression?).  Anyway, guess what I am saying is get a good quality one with lots of capacity and test it Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Hiace4wd
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 520
Home City : Netherlands
Model and year : 1994 Toyota Hiace 4x4 DIY camper
Registration date : 2016-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:25 pm

That 115Ah battery doesn't even list the CCA, I think it would be a poor choice for starting. Amount of CCA will not be high, and decline quickly when you;re depleting it.
The Optima is pretty unique in delivering high CCA while still allowing you to deep cycle. You don't want a leisure-only battery in a single battery camper setup.

@2135, yes, a diesel needs quite some amps. The smaller models are suitable for petrol cars.

GPW wrote:

If I hadn't bought a brand new 95AH main battery last year I'd be doing exactly the same!
The standard SC battery is huge, the space already there, and careful management would make it work for both jobs as long as it's not completely flattened. Even completely flat - a small emergency 'jump' setup is probably still lighter - would do - and they usually have tyre pumps and torches built in too so that would eliminate the need for an extra battery.

Yes but our diesels need quite some amps for starting. If you take these emergency jump setups then I think you should aim for those versions who can do 800 Amp peak power.
With exactly the same idea I bought a small jump start pack to expirement (I already know it is not powerfull enough for the van, but good enough for our small car).
However, it is still a battery (lithium) that also has less potention in the cold. And when are you going to need it most likely? In the cold.

Quote :

Another thing I plan to do at the next oil change is switch to fully synth 0WXX oil as it's much easier to turn over when cold. My new battery spins it fast and without effort but Tesco makes buying Fully Synth a no brainer - plus the economy should rise. Very Happy. I did have Cars From Japan change the oil+filter before it shipped though so I'll use it a bit first!

0W30 or even 0W20 is very very thin. I used it in our other car. But I wouldn't like to use it in the Hiace diesel.
The temperature range will be fine, however I think it is outside the specifications of the engine.
I would suggest to use at least 5W40 or something, somehow 0W30 doesn't feel right.
In our old Landcruiser I switched from 10W40 to 15W40, and you could see that the oil pressure was much better. I'm not sure if 0W30 will give you enough oil pressure.

Economy can definitely improve by it, although it may not be noticeable.
However, for starting, it should just start fine with 10W40 or 15W40 in colder times (-20 is a bit different perhaps)

Quote :

Initially I plan to just use the main battery and an LED digital battery voltage readout, peanuts on eBay and surprisingly accurate.

$1 hehehe but voltage readout does not give an accurate state of the battery state of charge. However, in most applications it is good enough.
Please not that with the 300W draw of such an electrical heater, you will need to wait a bit untill voltage stabilizes (15 minutes at least) to say something about the battery state.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:40 pm

TwentyOneThirtyFive wrote:
GPW wrote:
Even completely flat - a small emergency 'jump' setup is probably still lighter - would do - and they usually have tyre pumps and torches built in too so that would eliminate the need for an extra battery.

We suffered a flat battery on Skye (slipping fan belt) and borrowed one of these from the van we had parked next to.  It would not even turn over our warm engine (a 3L, so older tech with more compression?).  Anyway, guess what I am saying is get a good quality one with lots of capacity and test it Smile

I think they are only 10AH or so, plus jump lead resistance it's not going to start a cold 3L diesel. It may just about heat up the glow plugs.

What a fully charged one can do however is put a bit of charge back into the main battery - I.e. connect it up and leave it for 15 minutes, and then try to start it for the best chance! I've even had this issue jumping one car from another, sometimes you just need to wait for the dead battery to get some charge.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:09 pm

Oil matters:

Checkout this plate I found on the inside of my Hiace (under the passenger seat carpet near the door!)

Open in new tab if you can't se the image.


This is a full translation into english (Open in new tab if you can't se the image.)


So Toyota specify SAE30 for this engine but when it's cold they prefer 5W30. 0W30 therefore will be perfectly acceptable - remember that at operating temperature 0W30 is just as thick as 10W30, except 0W30 is synthetic and will stay that thick, 10W30 is generally non-synthetic and will therefore start thinning out to an eventual SAE10 as the rings smash up the temperature sensitive thickeners (which ends up inside the engine as varnish).


Last edited by GPW on Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Hiace4wd
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 520
Home City : Netherlands
Model and year : 1994 Toyota Hiace 4x4 DIY camper
Registration date : 2016-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:16 pm

GPW wrote:

I think they are only 10AH or so, plus jump lead resistance it's not going to start a cold 3L diesel. It may just about heat up the glow plugs.

What a fully charged one can do however is put a bit of charge back into the main battery - I.e. connect it up and leave it for 15 minutes, and then try to start it for the best chance! I've even had this issue jumping one car from another, sometimes you just need to wait for the dead battery to get some charge.

That can be a good approach which may work when your battery is a bit too low. But 10Ah is nothing when you have a dead battery (a broken battery will never deliver the required CCA's regardless of charge state)  or when you have left your lights on (completely drained battery)

That is why you want it to deliver the amount of CCA from the unit itself. However, I do agree that these clamp connections are usually poor connections with resistance.

I think I want to try an addon kind of thing with supercapacitors and screw connectors. Sure, they will always cost more time than clamps, but at least you make good contact.


Last edited by Hiace4wd on Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:19 pm

Hiace4wd wrote:
That 115Ah battery doesn't even list the CCA, I think it would be a poor choice for starting. Amount of CCA will not be high, and decline quickly when you;re depleting it.
The Optima is pretty unique in delivering high CCA while still allowing you to deep cycle. You don't want a leisure-only battery in a single battery camper setup.

Your Optima is far better than the 115AH battery I listed LOL. I still reckon it's good enough though - it's a big battery and best of all, extremely cheap Wink

Hiace4wd wrote:

However, it is still a battery (lithium) that also has less potention in the cold. And when are you going to need it most likely? In the cold.
Agreed. Lithiums are _hopeless_ in the cold. Seriously bad. If I leave a fully charged Lipo out in the cold and then try and fly a model helicopter it takes off slowly and then lands as the chemistry is too slow to keep up. At 20C it takes off like a rocket.
Bear in mind though your emergency boost battery will be in the cabin - so slightly warner.

Hiace4wd wrote:
0W20 is very very thin.
Indeed, see oil post. 30 grade is the correct one.

Hiace4wd wrote:

However, for starting, it should just start fine with 10W40 or 15W40 in colder times (-20 is a bit different perhaps)
10W and 15W are both very viscous when cold and don't flow well, which is why Toyota specifies 5W - see oil post.

Hiace4wd wrote:

$1 hehehe but voltage readout does not give an accurate state of the battery state of charge. However, in most applications it is good enough.
Please not that with the 300W draw of such an electrical heater, you will need to wait a bit untill voltage stabilizes (15 minutes at least) to say something about the battery state.
Very true, it needs to be off load for a while....
... but Hobbyking's devices will actually count the AH withdrawn for you for super accuracy - for only a few £ too Very Happy
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Hiace4wd
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 520
Home City : Netherlands
Model and year : 1994 Toyota Hiace 4x4 DIY camper
Registration date : 2016-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:25 pm

This is some nice info on that sticker, I forgot, you have the 1KZ which is a bit more modern than our L engines.

But I don't agree with comparison between 0W30 and 5W30. Sure, they may do the same at operating temp (not sure but okay). But it is definitely thinner during the cold startup period.
And like I said, 15W40 gave more oil pressure than 10W40 in my Landcruiser, also at operating temp, so I don't think you can make that kind of comparison.

I would strongly suggest to go with 5W30 and not 0W30. 0W30 seems to be outside specification for this engine.

Synthetic or full syntethic is a different story. Most are semi synthetic anyway, which is good enough. Occasionally you run into 15W40 being non-synthetic (mineral) oil, which needs replacement every 5000km.

I actually run 0W30 in our Yaris to make it super efficient. And for our Hiace I use the cheapest semi synthetic oil that I can find, but I don't dare to put 0W30 in the old diesel.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:25 pm

Hiace4wd wrote:
This is some nice info on that sticker, I forgot, you have the 1KZ which is a bit more modern than our L engines.

I'd think you'd have a similar sticker somewhere on yours too if Toyota have been consistent.
I really need to get a decent Japanese human translator for the 5,000km / 10,000km filter change bit - I can't quite make that out.

Hiace4wd wrote:

But I don't agree with comparison between 0W30 and 5W30. Sure, they may do the same at operating temp (not sure but okay). But it is definitely thinner during the cold startup period.
And like I said, 15W40 gave more oil pressure than 10W40 in my Landcruiser, also at operating temp, so I don't think you can make that kind of comparison.

There are two things here.

1) The top (30,40 SAE) rating is taken at 100C, the diesel engine might not run that hot so the cold rating may have influence here
http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

2) 0W30 does not get thinner as it gets colder, it just thickens less. For instance, take a test tube with 0W30 oil and heat one up to 100C, and put the other in the freezer until it's 0C. Drop a ball bearing into both and you'll see - the cold one is still more viscous.

These two points should explain both my point and what you are seeing in usage.
Leaks: If you do use 0W30 or 0W40 bear in mind that even when cold it's not much thicker than 30 or 40 SAE so it tends to leak/drip more if you have any sump gasket leaks. 5W should leak a little less, I generally treat 0W and 5W as exactly the same because for our - non antarctic - purposes, in general they are. Coming into winter I'll tend toward 0W, going into summer either is fine with me.

Hiace4wd wrote:

Synthetic or full syntethic is a different story. Most are semi synthetic anyway, which is good enough. Occasionally you run into 15W40 being non-synthetic (mineral) oil, which needs replacement every 5000km.
Semi synth is just a cracked form of non-synthetic and so I always treat that as non synthetic. Fully synth of good quality (PAO etc) will have a viscosity almost unaffected by (engine) temperature which gives another bonus: it doesn't get too thin when it gets too hot.

Hiace4wd wrote:
I actually run 0W30 in our Yaris to make it super efficient. And for our Hiace I use the cheapest semi synthetic oil that I can find, but I don't dare to put 0W30 in the old diesel.
If it passes emissions I'm sure it'll be fine with the Toyota recommended grade - but I'm not sure what that is for your engine.
I also note you are an all Toyota family Very Happy
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Hiace4wd
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 520
Home City : Netherlands
Model and year : 1994 Toyota Hiace 4x4 DIY camper
Registration date : 2016-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:39 pm

Yeah, Yaris, Hiace and MR2. Used to have Celica's in the past.
MR2 is mainly for track use, but is sitting for two years and it has too much rust (it is the 1985 model) so I think I will be making the though decision to let it go.

About the oil, it still doesn't feel right to do 0W30 in an old diesel. I'm sure it will work fine, but I worry about long term effects.

I'm gonna check for such a sticker too, but I'm not sure. My car was not sold in Japan. It was sold in Norway so I've got a Norwegian manual with it. I'll check it, perhaps it also lists 0W30.
Norway has everything cold spec anyway, which you can sometimes find in the parts system. It will say cold spec or Norway spec. Like a battery tray with two batteries, those kind of things.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:23 pm

Hiace4wd wrote:
I'm gonna check for such a sticker too

Mine was tucked under the carpet. Lift the passenger-seat bonnet up, then under the bit of carpet you lean on to access the engine is where mine was.
You may need to also take the plastic trim that holds the carpet down right where the door closes to get a good look.

Good luck!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:49 pm

I did a FULL translation of the service plate on my Hiace now, largely because I need to know what it says too Very Happy
This is just the engine maintenance schedule for the 1KZ-TE 2982cc engine as fitted in the Hiace (and Hilux).

Click on the link, it does work even if it doesn't show here.


Quite rapid oil changes in fact...

Here's a text summary for the search engines:

ENGINE ADJUST STANDARDS                                 D8
Valve clearance (Cold)  Inspiration 0.25mm  Exhaust 0.30mm
Idle speed                                  700rpm

  (automatic control for adjusting not required)

MAINTENANCE SERVICES

Engine Oil: CD Grade 10W-30 (Cold at the time 5W-30)
Engine Oil Exchange    every  5,000km (within 6 months)
Oil Filter Exchange    every 10,000km

  Engine oil should not exceed F level

Air cleaner element cleaning:   Private Passenger Car   Every 12 months
                               Private Cargo Truck     Every 6 months
                               Business use etc.       Every 1 months
                   Exchange  every 50,000km

Engine cooling water (LLC) exchange                     Every 2 years
   Private passenger car only the first time           3 years.

Fuel filter Exchange                                    60,000km
Timing belt Exchange                                    100,000km
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Hiace4wd
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 520
Home City : Netherlands
Model and year : 1994 Toyota Hiace 4x4 DIY camper
Registration date : 2016-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:19 am

This is some nice information.

I think these oil changes of every 5000km are mainly for when you use mineral (non synthetic oil). If you use half or full synthetic you can go longer. But I don't think you should exceed 10000km.
I just use the cheapest half-synthetic 10w40 oil I can find to be honest.

About the air cleaner, I think the "business use" is a bit translated wrong.
I have a sticker somewhere in the door opening that says to check air filter under dusty or heavy conditions every 2000km or maybe even 1000km.
I think it is safe to say that that is for desert conditions (where I've seen that they actually pull out the air filter a lot to get the sand out and stick it back)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
TwentyOneThirtyFive
Been here a while
Been here a while
avatar

Number of posts : 207
Home City : Hertfordshire, UK
Model and year : Super GL Camper (Vantech), 2.8D 4wd, 1995
Registration date : 2016-08-04

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:06 am

On my 2.8 the oil information (viscosity and change intervals) was on a small sticker on the rocker cover.

Don't remember seeing info about the fuel and air filter changes though.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:49 am

Hiace4wd wrote:
This is some nice information.

I think these oil changes of every 5000km are mainly for when you use mineral (non synthetic oil). If you use half or full synthetic you can go longer. But I don't think you should exceed 10000km.
I just use the cheapest half-synthetic 10w40 oil I can find to be honest.

According to http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/
half-synth is almost the same as non-synth, but it's this bit that really grabbed me:

Quote :
Drawbacks of Viscosity Improving additives
Multi-grade motor oils perform a great service not being too thick at cold startup to prevent engine wear by providing more instantaneous oil flow to critical engine parts. However, there is a draw back. These additives shear back in high heat or during high shear force operation and break down causing some sludging. What's worse is once the additive begins to be depleted the motor oil no long resists thinning so now you have a thinner motor oil at 210 degrees. Your 10W-30 motor oil can easily become a 10W-20 or even a SAE 10 (10W-10) motor oil. I don't have to tell you why that is bad. The more VI additives the worse the problem which is why auto manufacturers decided to steer car owners away from motor oils loaded with VI additives like the 10W-40 and 20W-50 viscosities.

I think 'sludge' is the main reason for not using 10W40 in new engines TBH, in the US there was a mini epidemic of sludge brought on by stretching service times with small sumps (to reduce service intervals and costs). With 40 - 10 = 30 there is a wide gap of 30SAE to make up with VI additives (the plastic that breaks down and turns to varnish and sludge). With 10W30 I suspect they need 2/3rd of the plastic in there.

So it's not my engine but I'd definitely use 5W40, not 10W40 if you want 40 weight. You may think 'why go from a spread of 30 to 35??). However to make 5WXX you need a fully synthetic PAO (type 4) base, which means no plastic, no varnish, huge stability over time etc. etc.

Even with a decent (PAO or better) synthetic you still have an issue after 10,000 miles that depends on how you drive it. This will be less serious with a diesel additive pack but in 1996 Toyota may still have had this in mind - one of acid erosion. Due to the high compression you get a lot of dirt in the oil in a diesel which is why it always comes out jet black. Some of this dirt is not good for the engine and however good the oil is, it needs to come out at regular intervals which I think may be some of the thinking behind the 5,000km oil change interval.

Having said that with a decent PAO for diesels I suspect 10k changes would be fine. After 10k your 10W40 will probably have broken down to 10W25 or similar because remember to make 10W40 you start with SAE10 oil and add plastic (type VI additives). The missing 40-25=15 will be sludge and varnish of course.



Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:50 am

TwentyOneThirtyFive wrote:
On my 2.8 the oil information (viscosity and change intervals) was on a small sticker on the rocker cover.

Don't remember seeing info about the fuel and air filter changes though.

Can you post a photo of it when convenient?
If it's a clear photo we can translate it with Google's Android 'Translate' program.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
TwentyOneThirtyFive
Been here a while
Been here a while
avatar

Number of posts : 207
Home City : Hertfordshire, UK
Model and year : Super GL Camper (Vantech), 2.8D 4wd, 1995
Registration date : 2016-08-04

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:11 am

Yep, will be in there at the weekend to tighten the new belts, so will get a pic.  I use the google translate quite extensively, it's a fantastic tool.

Interesting info about the oil.  I tend to stick to the prescribed service intervals, but wasn't sure why the interval was so short (the VW2.4 AAB, similar tech, similar reputation, same oil, less oil capacity by about 1L, is 5k mile intervals).
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Hiace4wd
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 520
Home City : Netherlands
Model and year : 1994 Toyota Hiace 4x4 DIY camper
Registration date : 2016-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:39 pm

GPW wrote:

According to http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/
half-synth is almost the same as non-synth, but it's this bit that really grabbed me:

Quote :
Drawbacks of Viscosity Improving additives
Multi-grade motor oils perform a great service not being too thick at cold startup to prevent engine wear by providing more instantaneous oil flow to critical engine parts. However, there is a draw back. These additives shear back in high heat or during high shear force operation and break down causing some sludging. What's worse is once the additive begins to be depleted the motor oil no long resists thinning so now you have a thinner motor oil at 210 degrees. Your 10W-30 motor oil can easily become a 10W-20 or even a SAE 10 (10W-10) motor oil. I don't have to tell you why that is bad. The more VI additives the worse the problem which is why auto manufacturers decided to steer car owners away from motor oils loaded with VI additives like the 10W-40 and 20W-50 viscosities.

I think 'sludge' is the main reason for not using 10W40 in new engines TBH, in the US there was a mini epidemic of sludge brought on by stretching service times with small sumps (to reduce service intervals and costs). With 40 - 10 = 30 there is a wide gap of 30SAE to make up with VI additives (the plastic that breaks down and turns to varnish and sludge). With 10W30 I suspect they need 2/3rd of the plastic in there.

So it's not my engine but I'd definitely use 5W40, not 10W40 if you want 40 weight. You may think 'why go from a spread of 30 to 35??). However to make 5WXX you need a fully synthetic PAO (type 4) base, which means no plastic, no varnish, huge stability over time etc. etc.

Even with a decent (PAO or better) synthetic you still have an issue after 10,000 miles that depends on how you drive it. This will be less serious with a diesel additive pack but in 1996 Toyota may still have had this in mind - one of acid erosion. Due to the high compression you get a lot of dirt in the oil in a diesel which is why it always comes out jet black. Some of this dirt is not good for the engine and however good the oil is, it needs to come out at regular intervals which I think may be  some of the thinking behind the 5,000km oil change interval.

Having said that with a decent PAO for diesels I suspect 10k changes would be fine. After 10k your 10W40 will probably have broken down to 10W25 or similar because remember to make 10W40 you start with SAE10 oil and add plastic (type VI additives). The missing 40-25=15 will be sludge and varnish of course.


That is a nice link, but to be honest I think the writers are a bit biased (AMSOIL is best etc). They could be right about all things, but they mention that Castrol Edge also switched to the lower grade group. However, Castrol-Edge is marketed as full syntheric over here. So what, I shouldn't even buy oil that says full synthetic?

Anyway, for the Hiace I think I will keep to the strategy of buying the cheapest oil (which is usually semi-synthetic) and replace it often. So that could be every year or within 10.000km (typically earlier).
With short intervals like every 5000km it could be the cheapest mineral oil that degrades quickly, but replacing that so soon will mean it won't make a difference.
And the cheapest oils are really really cheap. So it is no issue at all to replace them every year even though you only did a few 1000km's.
I don't see myself buying the best full-synth oil which is 4 times as expensive. That would be fine if it really brought me something, but I still will make regular service intervals.

By the way, I do like to use the full synthetic for new engines like the vvti engine in my Yaris. I actually ran full synthetic oil waaaaay past service interval (past a lot service intervals to be honest), and the oil that came out wasn't even black. And I mean I did a lot of mileage on that oil, which I wouldn't do in a diesel or on a turboengine. (Or on some specific car brands hehe)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GPW
Hiace Master
Hiace Master
avatar

Number of posts : 511
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:58 pm

Hiace4wd wrote:

That is a nice link, but to be honest I think the writers are a bit biased (AMSOIL is best etc). They could be right about all things, but they mention that Castrol Edge also switched to the lower grade group. However, Castrol-Edge is marketed as full syntheric over here. So what, I shouldn't even buy oil that says full synthetic?

Sadly yes, you may have missed this bit:
Quote :

However, in recent years Group III (3) based oils have been labeled "synthetic" through a legal loophole. These are petroleum based Group II (2) oils that have had the sulfur refined out making them more pure and longer lasting. Group III (3) "synthetic" motor oils must employ Viscosity Additives being petroleum based.
In fact Silkolene are selling 10W30 4 Economy "fully Synthetic" for motorbikes, but I found a link on their own forum where they admit it's not PAO synthetic. You can also tell by the 10W - PAO would not have that limitation due to the lack of paraffin, it would be 5W or 0W due to the lack of thickening when cold.

Tesco 5W30 synthetic is far more likely to be proper PAO (i.e. uniform slippery molecules) than anything starting with a 10W.


Hiace4wd wrote:

Anyway, for the Hiace I think I will keep to the strategy of buying the cheapest oil (which is usually semi-synthetic) and replace it often. So that could be every year or within 10.000km (typically earlier).
With short intervals like every 5000km it could be the cheapest mineral oil that degrades quickly, but replacing that so soon will mean it won't make a difference.
And the cheapest oils are really really cheap. So it is no issue at all to replace them every year even though you only did a few 1000km's.
I don't see myself buying the best full-synth oil which is 4 times as expensive. That would be fine if it really brought me something, but I still will make regular service intervals.

Your engine may well have a longer Toyota mandated interval, 5k is only what I know for the 1KZ-TE engine I have.

Hiace4wd wrote:


By the way, I do like to use the full synthetic for new engines like the vvti engine in my Yaris. I actually ran full synthetic oil waaaaay past service interval (past a lot service intervals to be honest), and the oil that came out wasn't even black. And I mean I did a lot of mileage on that oil, which I wouldn't do in a diesel or on a turboengine. (Or on some specific car brands hehe)

Petrol engines are great as the oil stays a lot cleaner. In a petrol car you can just change the filter now and again, the filter changes enough of the oil to mean you really don't ever need to change the oil. The Mobil 1 0W40 in my old 1986 E30 2.5L car is the same that I put in in 2010, it simply hasn't been used enough to even get close to the end of the oil life.

BTW PAO grade synthetics are better for emissions to because they don't evaporate the shorter chain molecules when warm (as all PAO molecules are the same size, but petroleum oil has a range of different sizes).

In practice oil is really the least of our worries, rust and spares being at the top, but it's interesting stuff to study.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Aye up.   

Back to top Go down
 
Aye up.
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 4Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Toyota Hiace Super Custom Owners Forum  :: General-
Jump to: