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 Lowering amount on the front and back

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TwentyOneThirtyFive
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:12 am

underside of rad is protected with a cover (although plastic). AC rad is exposed though. Not planning on any serious offroading, got 4wd more for bad roads than offroad. Already been useful on wet campsites and woodland carparks.

Anyway, we're going in the wrong direction...back to lowering Smile
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countzero1978
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:01 pm

I'm running a 205/60/16 et35 on mine atm,I have a set of rays 17's In my garage that should fit but I was hoping to go up to an 18 with a 50 tyre ,thought maybe if I go with a low offset e.g 0 lol the 18's should fit but its a total gamble lol so just trying to get ideas of what peeps have fitted without issue
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GPW
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:22 pm

You can use an 18 with a 50% tyre, but you'll need to calculate the width to maintain the diameter.

Standard is I think 15" 205/70 which gives a diameter of
15 * 25.4 + 205 * 2 * 70 / 100
= 668 mm

So if 18 * 25.4 + W * 2 * 50 / 100 = 668mm
Then
W = 668 - 18 * 25.4
W = 210.8mm

So you'll need 210mm wide tyres at 50%.
Any wider and you'll have to drop to 45% like mine.

Measure the offset of the originals or the spare to see what size will fit, although there may be some wiggle room.
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countzero1978
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:51 pm

Basically it's these I'm looking at

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ascari-Cuervo-Alloys-18x8J-5x114-3-with-4-brand-new-tyres-Jap-Lexus-Toyota-/182468781188?hash=item2a7bfca484:g:8yoAAOSw~AVYsvmT

I don't have either the originals or the spare, mine came on 15 mags, what worried me about the above is the 45 offset :-( ,those r 8j's though so that should be a 215?? think they would look trick on the van though so may gamble it, sounds like they're likely to fit from what youyr saying,lol
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GPW
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:19 pm

They look good.

I'd be worried about the inside hitting the suspension though, my rear wheels are more dished than my fronts - I'm guessing different offset to help the wider rims fit.

Is the 8J bit an 8" wide rim?

I could try to measure the offset of my fronts as they are currently off the van - how do I measure an offset?
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countzero1978
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:35 pm

Yeah think they'll look awesome on the van, that's exactly what I am worrying about with the suspension or wishbones coming into contact :-( ,yeah think 8j means 8" roughly I know 8j is a 215 tyre from experience, I also have these in my garage

https://www.nengun.com/mazda/this-mazdaspeed-ms-01-17-inch-four-238540

so suppose worst comes to worst I can run with em, but I really love those ascaris, basically as far as I know the offset is how far the mounting plate sits either forward or backwards from the centre line of the wheel,+ means the wheel will sit further back into the well and - will push the wheel out a bit, generally though your wheels will have a et stamp telling u the offset on all wheels, I've never seen a set without the ET stamp?
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mickB
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:54 am

countzero1978 wrote:
Basically it's these I'm looking at

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ascari-Cuervo-Alloys-18x8J-5x114-3-with-4-brand-new-tyres-Jap-Lexus-Toyota-/182468781188?hash=item2a7bfca484:g:8yoAAOSw~AVYsvmT

I don't have either the originals or the spare, mine came on 15 mags, what worried me about the above is the 45 offset :-( ,those r 8j's though so that should be a 215?? think they would look trick on the van though so may gamble it, sounds like they're likely to fit from what youyr saying,lol

they are very nice bounce 73.1 centre bore too which will fit the front hiace hub easy with spigot rings down to 67.1mm, the RX8 rims I fitted were 8x18 but et50 and I had front clearance issues on full lock with the rim hitting the wishbone and that was without the front dropped like I have now. There is a steering lock stop on the hub which, if the rust will let it release you could wind out to reduce full lock and stop catching the suspension
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GPW
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:52 am

mickB wrote:
countzero1978 wrote:
Basically it's these I'm looking at

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ascari-Cuervo-Alloys-18x8J-5x114-3-with-4-brand-new-tyres-Jap-Lexus-Toyota-/182468781188?hash=item2a7bfca484:g:8yoAAOSw~AVYsvmT

I don't have either the originals or the spare, mine came on 15 mags, what worried me about the above is the 45 offset :-( ,those r 8j's though so that should be a 215?? think they would look trick on the van though so may gamble it, sounds like they're likely to fit from what youyr saying,lol

they are very nice bounce 73.1 centre bore too which will fit the front hiace hub easy with spigot rings down to 67.1mm, the RX8 rims I fitted were 8x18 but et50 and I had front clearance issues on full lock with the rim hitting the wishbone and that was without the front dropped like I have now. There is a steering lock stop on the hub which, if the rust will let it release you could wind out to reduce full lock and stop catching the suspension

Interesting, I think my wheels are a 73.1mm centre bore too. Couldn't fit my metal caliper in the wheel but I read 73 from a plastic one so it is probably 73/1 as that seems a standard size.

I also measured 67.1mm at the front hub.

I need to order a set, the previous owner was big on style but short on technique - the wheels have coned nut sockets but they do really need spigot rings LOL. I'll have a look on the bay...

ETA: Well that was easy: 3.99 - hurrah Very Happy
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spigot-Rings-4-73-1mm-to-67-1mm-Spacers-Hub-for-Toyota-HiAce-Mk4-04-16-/182348101334?hash=item2a74cb36d6:g:3uMAAOSwcLxYIt5K
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GPW
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:36 am

countzero1978 wrote:
generally though your wheels will have a et stamp telling u the offset on all wheels, I've never seen a set without the ET stamp?

Please look at http://hiace-super-custom.free-boards.net/t2980p25-alloy-wheel-sizes-on-a-super-custom#16881
as I have added to this now! Will look for ET stamp later - missed that!
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mickB
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:54 am

GPW wrote:
mickB wrote:
countzero1978 wrote:
Basically it's these I'm looking at

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ascari-Cuervo-Alloys-18x8J-5x114-3-with-4-brand-new-tyres-Jap-Lexus-Toyota-/182468781188?hash=item2a7bfca484:g:8yoAAOSw~AVYsvmT

I don't have either the originals or the spare, mine came on 15 mags, what worried me about the above is the 45 offset :-( ,those r 8j's though so that should be a 215?? think they would look trick on the van though so may gamble it, sounds like they're likely to fit from what youyr saying,lol

they are very nice bounce 73.1 centre bore too which will fit the front hiace hub easy with spigot rings down to 67.1mm, the RX8 rims I fitted were 8x18 but et50 and I had front clearance issues on full lock with the rim hitting the wishbone and that was without the front dropped like I have now. There is a steering lock stop on the hub which, if the rust will let it release you could wind out to reduce full lock and stop catching the suspension

Interesting, I think my wheels are a 73.1mm centre bore too. Couldn't fit my metal caliper in the wheel but I read 73 from a plastic one so it is probably 73/1 as that seems a standard size.

I also measured 67.1mm at the front hub.

I need to order a set, the previous owner was big on style but short on technique - the wheels have coned nut sockets but they do really need spigot rings LOL. I'll have a look on the bay...

ETA: Well that was easy: 3.99 - hurrah Very Happy
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spigot-Rings-4-73-1mm-to-67-1mm-Spacers-Hub-for-Toyota-HiAce-Mk4-04-16-/182348101334?hash=item2a74cb36d6:g:3uMAAOSwcLxYIt5K

They are cheap enough and plentiful, will locate the wheel much better GPW
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:53 am

mickB wrote:
They are cheap enough and plentiful, will locate the wheel much better GPW
Good for safety too IMO transfers shock loads through to the hub instead of 100% relying on the bolts and hub/wheel friction.

When I'm driving through Spain or around mountain roads a hundred here and there for correct setup and safety doesn't seem that much anymore LOL. Surprised they were so cheap and available TBH, looks like the newer Hiace has the same hub size.


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GPW
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:37 am

Ok, done some measurements for my 'Project Bump Stop', the rear swing arms pivot points are:

REAR
Length to axle = 23.5"
Length to spring = 19"

So the ratio is 0.808 or 1.24 depending which way you go. About 80%.
E.g. to gain 20mm on the back you'd need a 20 * 0.808 = 16mm increase in spring length.

FRONT
Ok so I forgot to measure the top suspension arm length when the wheel was off - DOH, but it's about 250mm
Length to hub balljoint 250mm (approx)
Length to adjuster 120mm

Which gives ratios of 0.48 or 2.08. About 50%.
E.g. to gain 20mm at the front you'd need to tighten the adjuster bolts by 9.6mm

Probably best to unload the front while adjusting.

Next task is to level the ramps and adjust the front, then I need to work out the best way to drop the back to get a spring out so I can measure the uncompressed length and see about a RAV4 replacement. The best thing about RAV4 springs is that I can get stock ones delivered for just over 30 which - should they fit - would be rather good.
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:54 pm

What will do with your old coil springs GPW
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GPW
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:18 pm

mickB wrote:
What will do with your old coil springs GPW

Haha, I'll only decide that when they're out and the new ones are right Very Happy I may have to pad them up with 15-20mm of rubber if the RAV4 route doesn't work out.

These are probably [kenobi]not the springs you are looking for[/kenobi] as they only give around 5mm clearance to the bump stop on my empty, standard/short wheelbase SC LOL.

Great for an exhibition though, no use for driving Very Happy

I'd say that 340mm is on the stops, your standard height is 400mm and you want at least 25mm to the stops so your lowest practical 'slam' is around 340 + 25 = 365mm (wheel centre to arch).

The next job is figuring jacking points to get at them, the usual one (axle) is out, the convenient front of trailing arms is out as they need to swing down so there's a couple of points near the back just forward of the fuel filler neck but there's a fair old raise on there to get the rear wheels off the deck. Then there's a couple forward of the axle if the side cover is undone and I'm careful.

How did you plan on jacking your's up to take the springs out?
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:47 pm

There are other points to jack up the van right?
If you don't want to jackup the van that high, I must assume you will remove both wheels of the axle and get the axle really low to the ground? You could use two tiny "hinge" jacks from normal cars for that, they go really low.

8J means 8 inch wide rim yes. It does not say anything about tire width. Yes there is a relation but not fixed. For example I have 225 wide on 6J.
The width of the rim means if you can install it or not, hitting suspension parts as GPW says. The width of the tire, together with diameter, will determine if you will rub while steering.

(by the way, I checked, I will be somewhere at 480mm or 490mm when finished, perhaps 500mm on the rear. And you complain about the upper bump stops.. I complain about the lower bump stops on the front hehe)
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:10 pm

Hiace4wd wrote:
There are other points to jack up the van right?
If you don't want to jackup the van that high, I must assume you will remove both wheels of the axle and get the axle really low to the ground?

From the 1987 tech manual:




So it looks like perhaps the sill in front of the back wheel can be used too but I'm wary of jacking there.
All the usual points are on the rear suspension it seems, I just need to jack it on the chassis rails behind the rear wheels and get enough height to clear the wheels (so I can remove them), then I can undo the dampers and drop them down.

I'll have to be careful not to let the prop-shaft drop out too LOL... maybe a precautionary plank might be in order Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:21 pm

Had a look at the jacking possibilities for the rear spring op, looks like there is no alternative to jacking under the diff.

Then to support I'll use two axle stands under the rear outriggers just in front of the back wheel. Looking at the metal it looks like this has been done before - probably how they lowered it LOL.

So when I get a chance tomorrow I'll make a couple of blocks to stop the axle stand tops from mashing the outriggers, once supported the wheels can come off and the diff jack lowered which should then hang on the shocks.

Putting a bit of wood under the propshaft and then lowering further should allow me to pop the springs out for measuring and checking out the bases.


BTW I did jack the front up by 8mm per torsion thread but the suspension is not settled from the last jacking so I'll have to see how it sits on the road when done. Or at least the drive anyway Very Happy
Looks alright a bit higher TBH.
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:11 pm

Found this so I thought I'd post it up for inspiration Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:02 pm

GPW wrote:
Found this so I thought I'd post it up for inspiration Smile


This doesn't help me.......I'm now thinking bagged hiace
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:53 pm

Had a quick play with the can today, I've got an old vw t4 front shock and trial fitted it, will fit an absolute peach on the front, much beefier shock and you can get them in gas, the only mod is grinding a little of the lower shock eyelet to fit into the bracket on the arm
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:34 pm

slow progress with me with everything in normal life going on but this morning I pullled out a rear coil spring, that arm goes off with a bang when the bolt is out even with a jack under it Shocked I think I'm going to start cutting coils out from the lower section until I get it sitting how I want, I still need to remove the rear shock but can't work out how to get to the upper nut ? anyone else removed rear shocks, also, I bagged a set off 7.5 x 16 et 30 Lenso BSX alloys for 135, look the nuts and can't wait to get them on when lowered, came of a Freelander so not worried out weight really as mine is less both middle seats now too
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:16 pm

Interesting progress Mick, following keenly.

The top rear shock nuts are accessed from inside the van. I don't know if you have to take the inside side trim off first though.

Will be good if Freelander wheels fit, lots available.
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:48 pm

well today has been a let down, took the n/s/r spring out couple weeks back,cut a coil out last sunday - its very hit and miss getting time as I'm now a granddad to twin girls who are a week old so helping with the daughter and her fella - put it back together today, put a vw t4 front shock on the rear but not enough travel so I have a new hiace front shock on the back now with a off-road suzuki sj410 shock adaptor bracket fitted, stuck the wheel on a dropped it back down.........hardly any drop, and I know the other side is affecting the ride level but I was expecting more, my gut feeling last week was to cut out more spring but my mate said no air on side of caution.........hmmmphhh.........so its all got to come apart again cut another chunk of coil out and then do the same the other side. with the twins taking up my time a bit i've asked locally if anyone wants to do it for me and i'll pay to get it done, getting too old to be laying on slabbed drives this time of year

I'd put pics up buy photobucket have scuppered that now
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:23 pm

I wondered how it was going, DIY suspension changes with a live axle can require lots of energy!
The problem with garage rates are that labour rates in the UK are now insane.

If you're pulling both springs I'd try putting in some RAV4 rear springs instead. Nothings guaranteed but the size and weight loading says they should work OK, but the drop is uncertain. However an uncertain drop on RAV4 springs is rapidly changed into a known one as they are available in all sorts of drops so a standard pair would be for calibration and then the next would be for a nice 20mm drop (for example).

Also cut springs don't have a flat end, the end of factory springs are always tightened a bit to form a flatter 'foot' so RAV4 springs should fit better too.
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering amount on the front and back    Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:48 pm

I had read about Rav4 springs but I can't see them about at sensible prices, and without knowing I don't want to buy without that knowledge, might go with having a set made, there is the company that wheeler dealers used in one episode years back birmingham based still doing custom springs, I spoke to them last year and its about 60 per spring but about 4-6 weeks turnaround
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