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 SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?

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brierly89
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PostSubject: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:24 pm

On my 1998 2WD Hiace Super Custom 3.0L Turbo Diesel, I have noticed the temperature climbs when going up hills on hot days.... This is not good as I live in Australia, where it gets very hot... Over 40C during a heatwave... I have read horror stories of overheating and cracked heads... The area I live in is full of hills. The temperature concerns me as I plan to soon fit roof racks, bull bar, side awning, which will all put more stress on the engine.

Has anyone actually found a SOLUTION to better cooling the 1KZ-TE engine?

I see that someone managed to fit an aftermarket transmission cooler, but not sure of what their outcome was. People on the Toyota Surf forums (same engine) have found that some are fitted with radiator whose outlet is significantly blocked (by the trans cooler pipe)  Shocked  - although having a look at some photos of the Super Custom's radiators they seem to be a different design....
LINK: http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=195  study

I plan on installing a more accurate digital thermometer (although tossing up between coolant one vs external engine one).

It seems to be an issue with all Hiace Super Customs - especially 4WD - I believe my cooling system is performing as normal, but I will have my mechanic check the vicious fan and eventually I'll have a more thorough flush / clean of the radiators (just had coolant flushed and replaced by mobile mechanic, but assume a radiator specialist can do a better job in a shop).

Has anyone found a SOLUTION? I would love to find a fix as I love the look and functionality of the van. It also drives great!
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Hiace4wd
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:26 pm

Why didn't you continue in the previous topic? Or are you asking something different now?

I think the best way is too keep everything in good condition. Because when it was fresh from factory, I'm sure it wouldn't overheat. Because I don't know any other Toyota that overheats in hot conditions, they are usually very good when it comes to cooling.

You could also fit a thermostat that opens earlier at a lower temp.
And modify the visco fan so that it starts working earlier.
Or add an electrical fan which you switch on manually or by an electrical thermostat which you put on the engine head or something like that.
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brierly89
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:52 am

Hi Hiace4wd.

My previous topic was in regard to modifying the stock thermostat. I thought it would be good to start a thread to discuss a wider range of options and see if anyone has had success in hotter climates with preventing the temperature rising on hill climbs / towing etc...

It seems that it is a common occurrence here in Australia. Our summers are very hot. It may not be an issue for you up there in the Netherlands.

Thanks for the suggestions!

I'll ask my mechanic to add some more oil to the viscous fan =)

I've read various things about changing the thermostat, but mosty people seem to say it doesn't make a difference.. The stock one is wide open at 88C so once the engine heads towards temperatures above that the thermostat is already wide open, thus a 76C thermostat should make any difference.. Maybe I am wrong though...

Interesting point about adding a fan. I assumed there wouldn't be any room in the engine bay for that.
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Hiace4wd
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:50 am

You may be right on the thermostat. It may just give you a bit of extra buffer in terms of having a engine that is 10 degrees C colder before you start going up a hill with the trailer.

In the Netherlands we don't have hills and extreem temps no Smile
And the 1KZ engine is not common here, specially not with automatic. I know one guy who was very negative about the engine, not about the power and such, but about the cooling issues.

However, the 2L and 3L engine (codes) can get cracked heads to if the cooling is not sufficient.

And from the Netherlands I can drive through France, which I did in a heatwave. So with a loaded camper van going up a hill with 40 degrees C outside... So I know the feeling.
However mine did not overheat, even though there wasn't nearly enough coolant in the system. I found out about that later, couple of days after holiday, when I noticed that all the coolant was thrown out via the radiator cap. And it started overheating in normal conditions. Then I replaced the cap, the hoses, and flushed the coolant, and didn't have any issues.
By the way, I can clearly hear the visco fan engage a lot of times when I'm trashing it on the highway. That means driving faster than a 100km/h, like 110 or so. That may not seem like fast, but my van has a high roof, and the 2L engine has no turbo, it needs to work hard.

But as said in one of the other topics. I think the 1KZ has a small design error which can lead to a cilinder not being cooled enough.
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:01 am

my instrument panel temp guage is always normal, even in hot weather.
so, I fitted an extra temp guage and that can get up to 220 farenhite on a hot uphill run.
so, I have removed all undercar covers to give the hot engine air somewhere to escape.
I am also now checking the tension on the fan belts and water pump, they need to be firm to ensure they are not slipping at higher rpm
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brierly89
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:33 am

So a bit of an update from me,

After owning the van for a few months I can confirm that any long hill climb, no matter the summer temperature (I am yet to drive in cooler weather), the van will 'overheat'... By overheat I mean run hotter than it should, the temperature gauge starts to climb after a long delay. At which point I crank the heater and back right off the accelerator or even pull over. I have had this happen enough to know that I need to keep my foot on the accelerator as light as possible when doing hill climbs - and it still happens...

Rather annoying to own a van with a massive 3.0L Turbo diesel that can't get up to speed on any long hills...

My thought are,

- replace the thermostat
- top up viscous fan oil
- install digital thermometer in coolant path
- see if it's possible to install an intercooler

I have some other work to do on it first, so see how long this takes me.. Or more specifically my mechanic..

Are there fan belts used to cool the engine? My understanding was that there is only the vicious fan and an electric fan on the lower radiator?
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GPW
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:18 am

brierly89 wrote:

My thought are,

- replace the thermostat
- top up viscous fan oil
- install digital thermometer in coolant path
- see if it's possible to install an intercooler

I have some other work to do on it first, so see how long this takes me.. Or more specifically my mechanic..

Are there fan belts used to cool the engine? My understanding was that there is only the vicious fan and an electric fan on the lower radiator?

The lower rad is interesting, it's just in series with the vertical rad with the viscous fan - the water comes out the bottom of the main rad on the drivers side and straight into that lower one - so if that electrical fan is faulty you may also get an overheat. Directly under the lower rad is the air conditioning rad - so the A/C will (also?) drive that electric fan. I'd need to see a wiring diagram to see if that lower fan is also driven by engine temperature - I suspect it would make quite a big difference. Perhaps a relay somewhere is used for that too.

Worth a good hoover in there too make sure the air can get through the two lower rads.

I agree with your first 3 points - worth doing a coolant flush when the thermostat is done too.

I suspect your first 2 points are the cause of the overheat but I'm following closely as I may do some pre-emptive maintenance to mine as I have the same engine. It's not known for overheating IIRC so I'd suspect a fault waiting to be fixed.

BTW an intercooler will generate more power ;D
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:28 am

Hi GPW,

I will certainly leave an update once I have made some more progress. I have the van booked in for sometime next week, so hopefully will make some progress.
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brierly89
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:08 am

Hi guys,

Turns out the fan on my second radiator (the electric fan) was not working! Geez... No wonder it was having issues.

Anyone know where I can get a replacement or a good alternative? Hoping to get this fixed asap so we can get away on a camping trip late next week. Might have to retro-fit a generic one.
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:12 am

Can't believe I missed the electric fan... I had thought I'd seen it working, but it definitely isn't anymore...
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Hiace4wd
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:41 am

Check if it is really the fan, or if it is not the wiring.
I would guess that it is activated by either a thermoswitch or activated by the AC?
If activated by AC you should check if it is receiving any power.

If activated by a thermoswitch, you should pull the plug on the thermoswitch, because typically the fan will then run (failsafe mode I have seen on other Toyota's)

Perhaps you can put some electric fan on there which has the same size? Ebay is full of electric fans in a lot of sizes. Or perhaps something from local car shop or even junkyard if you are in a hurry.
Next to that, there are companies that can rebuild any electric motor, so also your fan.
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:44 am

Good that you found it!

First I'd take it off and have a good look, test it with a multimeter.
It may simply have seized bearings and need some WD40 and a good jiggle.
Then test it with a 12V battery - minding your fingers.

First however try to turn it with your fingers (ignition off, engine cold!) and if it is free to turn, check the fuses..


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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:15 am

In case it will reassure you I use mine to tow a 1500kg caravan and the van itself weighs 3000kg loaded with people and gear. So far on plenty of 40deg plus days no problem!
I'm sure with everything fixed it will be fine. I guess you will have checked to see that if yours has a manually operated radiator blind fitted it is in the open position - mine doesn't have one fitted.
Cheers,
Dave
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:23 am

Like all Toyota's I know of the thermostat is centre damped - this means that within a fair temperature range it will read normal and the needle will stay still. If the needle does get high you are right to be alarmed.

I forgot to mention that the 3.0 TD is still only 95kW. When you say "up to speed on any long hills" just be happy you can overtake me and my van as you go. (see my icon).

Cheers,
Dave
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:06 am

Dave, thank you so much for the reassuring input! I had not yet heard of anyone who has had their Super Custom not overheat in such hot weather. That is a real relief to hear, I was beginning to think of selling the van, which would be a shame considering all the work I've put in so far (fitting out as a camper). I will keep on trying.

Update:

According to my mechanic the electric fan on the second radiator had seized so they retro-fitted a new fan (looks pretty tidy in there) although once that was done he called to say that is was not turning on when the AC turns on or when the engine warms up... So he temporarily wired it to the AC, so that it turns on when the compressor engages. Unfortunately this hasn't seemed to solve the issue of overheating and it keeps blowing its fuse... Which is no good...

To get it working properly I need to source a wiring diagram as Toyota wouldn't give one to us. I guess they don't like people buying imports... I've seen some people posting them, but it seems the links are all old and no longer working.

Next things to try are replacing the thermostat and properly flushing the radiators. Fingers crossed... Although I need to save up some funds before then.

Mechanic suggested an intercooler would be a good idea, but I'll try the other things first as according to CustardCrazy this isn't normal.

Thanks for all the help so far guys,

Cheers,
Tim
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:28 am

Good update!

I'd get the cooling fixed BEFORE modding with an intercooler, all the intercooler does is transfer heat from the outlet of the turbo to the radiator area - I think you want that area as simple and factory as possible until the fault is solved.

Re the new fan, check it blows DOWNWARD, the air flow at the front must be (95% certainty Smile) in from the grill, down through that front rad stack and sucked out the bottom by the van's motion through the air. If it's fighting the natural airflow it won't do anything when in motion.

Can you remind us of the status of the main viscous fan? That's the most important bit (as well as the thermostat obviously!!).

I've ordered a manual that may cover our vans (from Oz ironically), when that arrives I'd be surprised if someone doesn't hack my PC and post it on a sharing site for all of us to use.
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:22 pm

Which fuse does still blow? Of the fan? And then does it overheat after the fuse has blown?

And yeah, how does the visco fan work? And the thermostat?

An intercooler would still be good I think, if you can position it so that it is not blocking other radiators.


Next to that, you can buy these 3 row radiators, made from aluminium. From China. Usually for other cars, but maybe they make some for a Hiace?
Otherwise, have a company fit 3 rows if possible (will be costly)
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:31 pm

I forgot to mention mine only has the standard viscous coupled fan on the front of the motor pulling air through the radiator. All is bog standard.
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:42 pm

In bredzy's gallery the engine pic shows the standard viscous coupled fan.
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:33 pm

Yeah he will have the visco fan, it is just the question to see if it works or not.

Alternatively, you could run it (for a test period) without the thermostat.
This is not ideal for a lot of reasons, the biggest one being winter, in which it would not get to good operating temperatures (you will notice that on the highway, it won't like it)

But it would allow you to see if all of the chain is operating correctly, check your thermostat, and perhaps replace it with one that opens much earlier.

Because we are having a lot of discussions, but you could just have a bad thermostat.

It would be easy to remove it, go for a test drive. And put the thermostat in a pan with water with a thermometer to see if it opens.
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:03 am

@Dave (CustardCrazy) does your van not have a second radiator with electric fan? (Above the AC radiator between the front wheels)? Mine does have the viscous as per yours on the main radiator.

According to the mechanic the vicious fan is working properly, but I guess I could ask them to add some extra oil in there to make it work harder.

It overheats before the fuse blows anyhow, the fuse is one that the mechanic installed (in line) on the new 12V power supply to the fan. The electric fan on the second radiator helps when it is working, but it seems it isn't enough, probably because it's only engaging when the AC compressor kicks in (because of the temporary wiring job). I've already upped the fuse from 15A to 20A so I'll have to hunt for the cause, the mechanic should cover this anyhow if it's something they've done wrong.

Where abouts is the thermostat located?

Any suggestions as to where I can source a wiring diagram?

Thanks guys!
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:26 am

My van is in another location at the moment as I'm repairing windscreen surround rust but I will check whether it has any electric fans. I have never heard any but no harm poking my head under!
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PostSubject: Re: SOLUTIONS to 1KZ-TE Overheating?   Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:51 am

Thermostat should be located there when you follow the big hose from radiator to the engine, the upper one. I don't have the same engine so I cannot tell exactly.

Was the coolant every flushed properly?
When you take out and check the thermostat, I would suggest to drain the cooling liquid. Then, put in a garden hose with quite some pressure and flush it through. In direction of the engine, but also the radiator. You can leave the drain open. You could also run it with water for a short time. But of course, drain the water when you're done.
Replacing it with new coolant could never hurt.

I think you got to know what the state of the coolant is, if the coolant system is dirty (probably a lot of brown water will come out). And what the state (and opening temp) of the thermostat is.
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