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 Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location

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Dave66
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PostSubject: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:01 pm

Hi All,

Hope somebody can help. I have a 1993 2.8l diesel automatic hiace LH113 imported from Japan. It has recently developed a rough idle once warm and conning to a stop (intersections, roundabouts etc). It starts perfectly and idles fine cold. I've just had all filter's replaced, injectors tested and cleaned but still having the same issue. I read about a possibly faulty EGR valve and possibility of disconnecting it but want to make sure it will be OK and I'm doing it right to see if is the fault.

Any help on location and how, or if good idea would be great.
Can't seem to upload pics.

Thanks
Dave
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Hiace4wd
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:16 pm

Hi Dave,

Are you even sure that it has EGR?
And you know how to remove the seat and panel, to reach exhaust manifold and alternator etc?

How are the fluids doing? No leakage form oil to cooling liquid or other way around?

And there are some versions of the fuel pumps, usually for colder countries (scandinavia, canada etc) that have a temperature sensor of some kind. This is directly related to the temperature of the engine, having influence on how much diesel is injected. These are sometimes causing problems, with owners removing this feature of the diesel pump.

I forgot the name of this system, in any way it is a mechanical (thermostatic) system on the fuel pump, so not an electronic system through an ECU or so.
If we would get the name right, then you could find some useful stuff on the internet.
I also don't know if the Japanese vans would have got that system.
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Hiace4wd
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:35 pm

Hi Dave, I think it is called ACAD or ACSD, or VE style?

Here you can find some generic info about it:
http://youronlinemechanic.com/ve-pump-options-acsd-automatically-controlled-cold-starting-device/

I guess you would have to see coolant liquid lines going down to your fuel pump?

There is quite a big a chance your engine does not have this, and that it is all not relevant to you.
And maybe if you have it, it is working fine. But it is just an idea.


Another theory is that you have a completely different issue with your fuel pump, and the ACSD is just masking this issue.

Here another thread about somebody removing it with some kind of plate:
http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9187&sid=cc9388109cb86250983dd05e16713340


When it idles rough, are there any other indications? Like dashboard lights?
And when you press the throttle, the rough idle goes away?
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WGWarburton
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:42 pm

I'm also thinking the 2.8 doesn't have an EGR. All mechanical.
If you increase the idle with the knob on the dash to the right of the ignition (the one with a "choke" symbol on it), does the idle smooth out with a few more revs?

Cheers,
W.
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Dave66
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:54 pm

Hi guys,
Firstly thanks for the replies much appreciated. The mechanic said that's what they would need to check next, I had a quick look and wasn't obvious so thought I'd make sure wasn't chasing something that didn't exist.
Thanks for the links I'll have a read.

It does go away as soon as I apply any revs when it's doing it. It never (well hasn't so far) ever idled rough when first starting or stop on the flat before turn the engine off. It's mainly when I approach a intersection or round about and is intermittent but rather strong shudder and sounds very close to stalling.

The liquids all seem fine. No discoloration to the oil or around the cap. Just been changed along with oil, air and fuel filters. It has recently started to produce more black smoke as well and is slightly sluggish.

Thans again!
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JT69
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:43 pm

Intresting symptoms sounds as if the auto box or fluid flywheel is draging the revs down to stalling , chech the ATF fluid for colour or has it been overfilled some people put far too much in could just be as simple as that.
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Dave66
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:48 pm

I checked the ATF fluid yesterday, wasn't overfilled according to the dipstick. It was a darker colour though not a bright redish as I have read. Should it be quite a bright obvious red or certain colour?

Thanks for the reply!
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JT69
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:15 am

According to popular opinion cherry red ok , brown change oil , black wave goodbye to your auto box, to change oil drain down from auto box plug, same amount back in through dipstick pipe as you can only drain about 1/3rd of the oil the rest is trapped in the fluid flywheel its best to do this three times driveing a few miles between each drain down. There is a filter in the gearbox sump but unless your box has done a million miles it will be ok , haveing changed a few have never found a dirty one yet and its only a mesh screen not a filter just there to catch bits rather than filter oil.
Good luck mate let us know how it turns out we all like to learn.
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Dave66
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:05 pm

It's heading the brown way so I think I will do the change tomorrow. Thanks for the tips and help. Is there a type of ATF you would recommend?
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JT69
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:32 pm

Dextron 2 or 3 your local Halfords will have a list, its old tech so nothing special.
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Dave66
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:37 pm

Perfect that's what I was thinking. I'm in Spain at the moment so will hunt some down!
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JT69
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:48 pm

Ah yes Spain we were there last week Puerto de Mazzaron lovely red wine a Rioja at E1-92 a bottle cant even get the same over here.
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Dave66
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:45 pm

Hi All,
Hope everybody had a good Xmas. I have now given the atf a flush. The van feels much nicer now, how long until I should do another flush as understand only drained about a 1/3.
The van is still idling rough but nothing like what it was and seems to be improving. Does the onboard computer need to relearn, should I disconnect the battery or do nothing?
I haven't taken the drivers seat out yet to expose intake etc are there any tips on this?

Thanks agai
Dave
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JT69
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:51 pm

Hi there as we said ATF change you will only need to do 10 to 20 miles between the parcial oil changes its just a case of reduceing the old fluid till it acts like new nothing to do with the ecu remember its 20 year old tech one of the first with electronic controled injection but still a mechanical pump. A good diesel recon shop will be able to diagnose injection problems if it does not clear up once the auto box is eliminated as cause of possible stalling. They will check things like injection pressure fuel supply pressure, there are fillters on the inlet to the pump as well as the main fuel filter, unless one is realy competent an engineer is your best bet, hope the problem gets sorted and let us all know the outcome.
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:04 pm

Hi guys,
Update on this situation. It has progressively gotten worse so is back in the shop. They have checked injectors again but no resolution on issue. Mechanic has now said could be a piston or valve issue and will need to disassemble engine to check. This is obviously not good news and very haRd with the language barrier. I'm guessing this is going to be very costly and time consuming. Any advice or thoughts here?
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Hiace4wd
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:36 pm

Hi Dave, if I understand correctly the fuel pump has not been checked?
Opening the engine to check is annoying but might not be that expensive. However, if the fuel pump could be checked by some diesel guy it would be great. Not sure which is cheaper.
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Dave66
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:47 pm

I've asked them to check it but hasn't been done. Not sure it was fully understood even with Google translate! I will ask again. Struggling to even get rough price for the work which isn't ideal. What would similar cost where you are would you know?
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Hiace4wd
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:53 pm

Sorry I have no idea about the cost.
But if the van can drive nicely at times, the I think you wouldn't have a problem with valve or piston. Because it would be there all the time. Perhaps my view is too simple.

Did you check if you have coolant lines running to your fuel pump? If so read my first to messages on the info
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Dave66
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:56 pm

No worries. I want to think along the same lines but really wouldn't have a clue.
I tried to check but wasn't sure and now the vans in the shop so can't check. I'll ask the mechanic on cost to check that.
Thanks so much!!
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JT69
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PostSubject: Re: Hiace LH113 rough idle - EGR location   Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:56 pm

Hi sorry to here no improvement a piston or valve problem can be checked with a compression test by removeing a injector and cranking with starter, but I agree valve or piston fault would not be intermitent. Head gasket or cracked head could be intermitent only showing when hot, I had a 1KZTE with cracked head, check by putting rad overflow pipe in bottle off water will show bubbles. However as its in a workshop you realy nead it properly diagnosed by a proper qualified mechanic used to diesel Toyotas, very hard to find these days.
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